# Homing repeatability **URL:** \ **Category:** Elite Series (Masso & Redline) (Gen 1)\ **Created:** [October 5, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645 "2023-10-05T01:03:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![adamfenn28](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.onefinitycnc.com/adamfenn28/32/22878_2.png) [@adamfenn28](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/adamfenn28)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/1 "2023-10-05T01:03:16Z")
I’ve noticed that homing is not perfectly accurate. I can home, zero the machine work coordinates, cut, then re-home, and cut the same thing and it will be in a slightly different location. In one case, I was cutting dog holes with a roughing pass and a finishing pass. The holes that I cut the finishing pass after re-homing were slightly loose. Too lose for use in registering workpieces. Is this common or is this a defect? Is there a more accurate way to produce consistent homing results? Adam ---
**Author:** ![KenA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e9bcb4/32.png) [@KenA](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/KenA)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/2 "2023-10-05T01:06:26Z")
I only zero Z between roughing and finishing passes. I don’t think you can rely on consistent homing. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisS](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.onefinitycnc.com/chriss/32/22864_2.png) [@ChrisS](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/ChrisS)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 5:02am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/3 "2023-10-05T05:02:56Z")
Sounds like a product of the infrared sensors. Proximity would have been more accurate imo. A beam of light being interrupted is not as accurate as distance from a piece of metal ---
**Author:** ![SurfinGump](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.onefinitycnc.com/surfingump/32/7699_2.png) [@SurfinGump](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/SurfinGump)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 10:41am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/4 "2023-10-05T10:41:04Z")
My experience with homing precision: > [@3d milling question](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/3d-milling-question/22496/27): > > This thread seems to be bouncing around a bit, but I’d like to share my thoughts on the matter of shutting down the controller versus leaving it on. When it comes to intricate carving work like inlays and 3D reliefs, I’ve experimented with shutting down or rebooting the controller and attempting to return to the EXACT same spot at a later time. I must admit, achieving accuracy within 0.5mm to 1mm (0.0197" - 0.0394") has proven to be a significant challenge. I believe one of the primary reasons … ---
**Author:** ![adamfenn28](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.onefinitycnc.com/adamfenn28/32/22878_2.png) [@adamfenn28](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/adamfenn28)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/5 "2023-10-05T12:11:55Z")
This is about what I’ve seen. It’s a bummer, but something I can work around. ---
**Author:** ![349iq2345](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/bb73d2/32.png) [@349iq2345](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/349iq2345)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/6 "2023-10-05T13:08:00Z")
Hey Adam, > [@adamfenn28](#): > > I’ve noticed that homing is not perfectly accurate. I can home, zero the machine work coordinates, cut, then re-home, and cut the same thing and it will be in a slightly different location. I have no experience with photoelectric homing sensors as used on Elite Series. I propagate retrofitting [inductive proximity sensors](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/controller-software-tool-change-location-0-0-g54-g55-g56/10052/14) on the Original Series since the stock machines only have [stall homing](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/how-common-are-missed-steps/18352/8). The excellent accuracy and repeatability of inductive proximity sensors is known (one example [are these ones](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/how-common-are-missed-steps/18352/22)) and was also [confirmed here](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/machining-fixtures-making-short-run-production-a-piece-of-cake/13316/20). > [@adamfenn28](#): > > In one case, I was cutting dog holes with a roughing pass and a finishing pass. The holes that I cut the finishing pass after re-homing were slightly loose. Too lose for use in registering workpieces. But, in practice, why would you re-home during machine uptime? Homing is only necessary once after startup. What you would do is re-zero workpiece coordinates. That should always have a good repeatability. But you would only need to re-zero workpiece coordinates (with a touch probe or plate) if you moved your workpiece or fixed a new one. By the way, if you just want to move the carriages to the home position, and you say it lacks some repeatability accuracy when you home with the limit sensors, I would avoid using it. What you can do is simply G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0 in the MDI command entry field. G53 means “Move in machine coordinates”. This should not make problems with repeatability and accuracy, as you don’t rehome then. You may also program a target for G30 (“Go to predefined position”) and use this instead. ---
**Author:** ![Machinist](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.onefinitycnc.com/machinist/32/25961_2.png) [@Machinist](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/Machinist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/7 "2023-10-05T13:34:27Z")
Hey Adam, In addition to what @349iq2345 mentioned above, I have to ask if the the finish cut on the registration holes perhaps cut oversize, regardless of positioning accuracy? If you left, say, 0.010" [0.25mm] finish stock, then the combined X-Y error would have to be in access of 0.005" [0.013mm] to create the ‘winking’ effect shown. Could you visibly see or hear that the cutter was not cutting a complete circle on the finish pass? ![REGISTRATION HOLES](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/onefinitycnc/original/3X/b/d/bdd21cdaf9ef953f8e42dc6960ec242562e32bcb.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![WaywardWoodworker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e79b87/32.png) [@WaywardWoodworker](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/WaywardWoodworker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/9 "2023-10-05T16:22:40Z")
Masso advertises 10 micron accuracy of their optical homing sensors, if you are having repeatability issues on the Elite I’d look for an external source - debris in the sensor or outside sources of IR light (such as sunlight at different levels/times of the day) that might be affecting the trigger. If you are reading through the forums there’s a vast difference between the Elite and the classic X50/X35 with stall homing and repeatability. Take note of which machine is being referenced in the information provided. ---
**Author:** ![349iq2345](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/bb73d2/32.png) [@349iq2345](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/349iq2345)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/10 "2023-10-05T16:37:34Z")
Hey Espressomatic, hey Adam, hey all, > [@anon93936469](#): > > > [@349iq2345](#): > > > > But, in practice, why would you re-home during machine uptime? Homing is only necessary once after startup. > > True. But what Adam described could also manifest as a problem when doing multiple batches over multiple sessions/days when using work-holding/registration jigs. yes, therefore, if the homing is obviously not reliable enough, I would say, there is much that speaks for providing an opportunity for zeroing (with a touch probe or plate) even when drilling holes in the table, in order to override the inaccuracy of homing. Fences have been presented in the forum, or blocks that remain permanently clamped to the wasteboard, to which you can apply your touch plate. ---
**Author:** ![adamfenn28](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.onefinitycnc.com/adamfenn28/32/22878_2.png) [@adamfenn28](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/adamfenn28)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/11 "2023-10-05T18:42:14Z")
I only had this problem because the machine froze in Y. That’s a separate issue that I’ll have to get to the bottom of it it repeats. I was cutting the wasteboard, so zeroing to the home position. My finishing pass was perfectly sized. The holes that I cut fully on one side of the re-homing were perfect. The others were slightly oblong. ---
**Author:** ![PezWoodworks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ea5d25/32.png) [@PezWoodworks](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/PezWoodworks)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/12 "2023-10-05T22:18:28Z")
My Elite homes to near perfect repeatability checked with dial indicators on X and Y, I did have to slow my homing speed down a bit from me speeding it up from factory settings but it repeats very, very close. Pat ---
**Author:** ![adamfenn28](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.onefinitycnc.com/adamfenn28/32/22878_2.png) [@adamfenn28](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/adamfenn28)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/13 "2023-10-05T22:57:50Z")
> [@WaywardWoodworker](#): > > Masso advertises 10 micron accuracy of their optical homing sensors, if you are having repeatability issues on the Elite I’d look for an external source - debris in the sensor or outside sources of IR light (such as sunlight at different levels/times of the day) that might be affecting the trigger. Is it the Masso sensors on the Elite? ---
**Author:** ![349iq2345](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/bb73d2/32.png) [@349iq2345](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/349iq2345)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/14 "2023-10-06T01:26:06Z")
Hey Adam, > [@adamfenn28](#): > > I was cutting the wasteboard, so zeroing to the home position. yes, but what I tried to explain is, **_moving to home position_ and _homing_ is not the same**. While with the first (with G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0, or with G30, or the park position button) your machine stays within your “good” established coordinates, homing will delete your home coordinates and establish new ones based on driving all carriages to their limit sensors. You see the difference? And that’s also why when you probe with a touch probe or touch plate – and be it on your wasteboard with a permanently clamped block or fence to which you apply your touch plate – you get good repeatability over shutdowns and reboots, while with homing, you maybe get not. ---
**Author:** ![349iq2345](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/bb73d2/32.png) [@349iq2345](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/349iq2345)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 1:29am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/15 "2023-10-06T01:29:50Z")
Hey Adam, > [@adamfenn28](#): > > > [@WaywardWoodworker](#): > > > > Masso advertises 10 micron accuracy of their optical homing sensors, if you are having repeatability issues on the Elite I’d look for an external source - debris in the sensor or outside sources of IR light (such as sunlight at different levels/times of the day) that might be affecting the trigger. > > Is it the Masso sensors on the Elite? yes, the [Elite Homing Sensors](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/how-to-test-an-elite-homing-sensor/22135) use [photoelectric sensors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_sensor) as limit switches, not [inductive proximity sensors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_sensor) as [seen here](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/controller-software-tool-change-location-0-0-g54-g55-g56/10052/14). > [@WaywardWoodworker](#): > > Masso advertises 10 micron accuracy of their optical homing sensors microns of what? [µm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre) or [µinches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch)? Has someone reproduced this accuracy? - [MASSO Homing Sensor](https://docs.masso.com.au/wiring-and-setup/setup-and-calibration/masso-homing-sensors) ---
**Author:** ![349iq2345](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/bb73d2/32.png) [@349iq2345](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/349iq2345)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/16 "2023-10-06T02:07:38Z")
Hey Adam, by the way, as Bill @Machinist [brought into the discussion above](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/7), not accurate dog holes, especially after second pass, and even oval dog holes, were already a frequent topic in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![WaywardWoodworker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e79b87/32.png) [@WaywardWoodworker](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/WaywardWoodworker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/17 "2023-10-06T02:07:48Z")
The stock Masso homing sensor is not on the Elite, the package is far different than what Onefinity has on the elite. It’s possible they partnered with Masso to produce it, I was referencing it as an example of an advertised accuracy of a photoelectric sensor on the market. > [@349iq2345](#): > > microns of what? [µm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre) or [µinches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch)? I’ve always thought the generally accepted definition of a micron was a micrometer, or in this case I suppose whatever unit of measurement they use in Australia… ---
**Author:** ![349iq2345](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/bb73d2/32.png) [@349iq2345](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/349iq2345)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/18 "2023-10-06T02:09:03Z")
Hey Derek, > [@WaywardWoodworker](#): > > The stock Masso homing sensor is not on the Elite, the package is far different than what Onefinity has on the elite. It’s possible they partnered with Masso to produce it, I was referencing it as an example of an advertised accuracy of a photoelectric sensor on the market. Ah, okay, I did not know that. But do you think that photoelectric sensors can be less accurate than inductive proximity ones? > [@WaywardWoodworker](#): > > I’ve always thought the generally accepted definition of a micron was a micrometer, or in this case I suppose whatever unit of measurement they use in Australia… Just had a look at this, seems you are right! It’s just that the word “microns” is completely unusual in the region where I live, so I did not know where to put it. Here we say “Mü” for [µm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre) (in [IPA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet): [my:]), exactly as we pronounce the greek letter “[µ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(letter))” (that is the official unit prefix for “[Micro-](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-)”) (Unicode: U+03BC, legacy symbol: U+00B5). Seems that Americans pronounce this greek letter “[/ˈm(j)uː/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English)” By the way, the use of “micron” was [abrogated](https://www.bipm.org/en/committees/cg/cgpm/13-1967/resolution-7) by the [BIPM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bureau_of_Weights_and_Measures). ---
**Author:** ![TMToronto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@TMToronto](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/TMToronto)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:45am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/20 "2023-10-06T10:45:16Z")
I think a lot of these, maybe even Masso’s, are using the Panasonic sensors. They all seem to have the stated 0.01mm repeatability. From my earlier research more money will often get better repeatability/quality, regardless of sensor type. Sometimes I think it comes down to form factor (ease/cost of installation), or best type based on application (inductive may not be best when ferrous chips are produced). One other question is what accuracy/repeatability is needed or beneficial for your application, or when other factors like backlash, machine construction, quality of linear motion components, etc are considered. ---
**Author:** ![WaywardWoodworker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e79b87/32.png) [@WaywardWoodworker](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/WaywardWoodworker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 12:38pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/22 "2023-10-06T12:38:08Z")
> [@anon93936469](#): > > Actually, it is The exact model listed on the Masso web site in fact. The Elite simply has a mounting bracket over the sensor to secure it to the frame with a single bolt and a locating hole. > > Part# HSIR2PNP Good to know, I don’t own the elite and I referenced the pictures online that looked like a larger molded plastic part than the Masso sensor. ---
**Author:** ![poppyscott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a587f6/32.png) [@poppyscott](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/poppyscott)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645/23 "2023-10-06T16:56:54Z")
If you watch the homing process, the carriage moves until the light is broken. By the time it notice that, it has moved a little bit farther, but you see the carriage back up just a bit to stop where the light was broken. I have noticed that the repeatability is less than .001, because my reading never change form one home to another. [Next page](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/homing-repeatability/22645.md?page=2)