# Tramming Y Axis - Not understanding
**URL:** https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746
**Category:** Uncategorized
**Created:** [June 21, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746 "2022-06-21T22:56:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@makerjace](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/makerjace)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/21 "2022-06-25T23:09:00Z")
That’s encouraging! Another thing to check @G-Stibor. Is your table pretty flat? Definitely recommend the [fishing line test](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/journeyman-x50-setup/8317/10). If the machine frame is twisted, then this is a tough problem to solve.
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### Author:  [@G-Stibor](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/G-Stibor)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 12:08am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/22 "2022-06-26T00:08:29Z")
Yes, it is extremely flat. I built it on top of my torsion top work bench and that is where I have been using it. I had it dialed in perfectly (X & Y). I think I’m ready to start dabbling in more intricate stuff such as 2.5D. I surfaced my spoil board…still perfect but saw the foil I had in there was rubbing away so that is when I saw the post about the tramming bolts. If I can adjust it with the bolts and get rid of the foil that would be ideal.
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### Author:  [@makerjace](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/makerjace)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/23 "2022-06-26T00:15:31Z")
We are chasing the same thing then! Good to hear that’s not the issue.
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### Author:  [@Ziggy](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/Ziggy)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/24 "2022-06-26T19:03:18Z")
> There’s a pipe inside the feet.
Are you talking about the X-Rails? So, in my case the three x rails on a woodworker with a stiffy installed?
If this is the case, then do the bolts that go through the feet into the rails need to be loosened? I believe I peeked in there and see bolts going through the aluminum feet into the rails. Or are they just going into holes to keep the rails from slipping out?
I may try it again… But even with a dial indicator and starting from all bolts loose, I saw zero movement.
I finally have my machine trammed. It took 30 pieces of aluminum foil and playing with the torque on the router mount but it is trammed. I really wish I didn’t have to do it that way. Maybe this is normal with “hobby level” CNC machines.
Thanks to Onefinity for the replies.
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### Author:  [@Ziggy](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/Ziggy)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/25 "2022-06-26T19:04:22Z")
How much did you have to shim it before you were able to fix it with the tramming bolts?
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### Author:  [@Machinist](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/Machinist)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/26 "2022-06-26T19:11:13Z")
@Ziggy, I used .008" (small piece of paper folded in half) at the top.
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### Author:  [@TMToronto](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/TMToronto)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/27 "2022-06-26T19:35:46Z")
I do not think the tramming bolts are a feature on the X35 with stiffy, only the X50 tubes/mounts.
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### Author:  [@Machinist](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/Machinist)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/28 "2022-06-26T19:44:53Z")
@TMToronto Tom, I have them on my X35, but only on the bottom rail since I’m not running with the stiffy. I was able to achieve a good tram with just the lower set.
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### Author:  [@TMToronto](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/TMToronto)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/29 "2022-06-26T21:21:58Z")
Thank you @Machinist for the information. I had the original x35 then upgraded (fairly) recently to the X50. I don’t remember the original having them - but then I have a hard time remembering many things 😃
Are the newer X35s shipping with these, and the handy hole for easy access to the motor coupler screw? I was wondering how it would work having tram adjustment screws with three tubes, unless the middle rail was centred between the outer two, and acted as a natural pivot point.
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### Author:  [@Machinist](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/Machinist)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/30 "2022-06-26T21:32:56Z")
I’m not sure on that, Tom. I have an earlier machine and don’t have the access hole for the coupler (I didn’t even know that was a thing). Good point on the middle rail. In theory, the center rail could indeed be the pivot-point. But in real practice, there’s probably enough flex within the assembly to make it a non-issue. When I first learned about the tram bolts, I was perplexed as to why I didn’t have any on my top rail, but then it dawned on me that the stiffy contained the top adjustment screws. But like I said, I was able to achieve a great tram with just the one set of adjustment holes.
Edit for an afterthought: Best practice when using 3 rails would probably be to loosen both sets of top & bottom tram bolts so the 3 rails could find their own centers, then slowly and evenly tighten both front & rear bolts. Then adjust with even turns the diagonally opposite bolts so as to maintain vertical alignment of the rail centers. But again, this is merely a working theory.
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### Author:  [@G-Stibor](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/G-Stibor)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2022, 5:02am UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/31 "2022-06-27T05:02:04Z")
It took a little over an hour but I trimmed my machine and got it dialed in perfectly. Left and right was easy enough and only took a few minutes. The Y-Axis I tried a few different ways but finally gave up on the Tramming bolts since no matter what I did it never registered any movement. I took a trip to Harbor Freight and picked up some feeler gauges. Placed a few behind the Z-slider. Changed it a few times until it was 100% level. Ran a surfacing pass on a scrap piece of wood. I can’t see or feel any ridges at all.
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### Author:  [@Ziggy](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/Ziggy)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/32 "2022-06-27T21:06:40Z")
Thanks for all the responses. Hopefully they will help someone.
Does anyone know if the “pipes” that Onefinity refered to are actually the X-rails?
If so, how can they move when they are bolted to the feet?
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### Author:  [@TMToronto](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/u/TMToronto)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/tramming-y-axis-not-understanding/13746/33 "2022-06-27T21:12:12Z")
I believe the pipes are the rails, and that they have a small (minute) amount of ‘play’ within the foot - with the bolts holding them fixed in the position you eventually select.
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