Air cooled spindle?

Not yet but I’m much more at ease with electronics than mechanical mounts.
So the first hurdle is a 43mm mount for 1F.

How would you realize it, with an Arduino? You would easily have a RS-485 interface with the MAX485 shields offered. Or are there existing solutions?

There are none on the market?
But you could mill one?

Have you thought of making the opening at the same point than the opening in the 65 mm mount, so that you would need no clamping screw on the adapter, it would be clamped by the 65 mm? Just an idea.

What do you mean? The Makita 701RC is 89x89 mm, the Mafell is only 74x79, so it should fit? Or do you plan to use the Tool-less quick-clamping device?

EDIT: Made wrong assumption on stepper overhang:
44820c676c90d630adfdf5382b185921f711a66f_cropped1
You are right, it could become tight. Does someone know the exact distance from center of 65 mm mount to stepper? And with 80 mm mount?

EDIT2: […gears in the head were running…] But maybe it could go if you put the Euro 43 mm not in center of 65 mm, but excentric instead, towards front

Indeed, that’s some of mechanical challenges and possible solutions that I have considered if I was to cut a reducer. With the added… concerns (a) that I’m not very knowledgeable on the matter, (b) and that if I get it very wrong, I could potentially hurt myself or (c) damage the machine.

1F did a great job at delivering a simple but powerful system. And, as the journeyman demonstrates, the system can grow and evolve. The Z-axis appears as the least flexible aspect though: it is designed for the Makita router, period, as the limited clearance shows.

My original point in this thread is that I’d like to see more options besides the 80mm mount for spindle, and I’d love to see one targeting the 43mm euro neck. There are many tools in 43mm, including drills, which would open even more options for manufacturing!

Yes, agreed. That’s why I gave the QCW Frame a try. It is not at all what I planned for a table, but it is something that is designed to work out of the box. My impression is, the older you get, the more your appreciate that you don’t need to make everything yourself…

Yes, totally agreed. It’s the weakest point in an uncompromisingly excellent choice of parts. They didn’t make a large plate on Z Axis for custom spindle mounts as other CNCs have, since they would have been using much stronger rails and bearings because of the leverage force then. The Onefinity Z Slider has its milling motor axis very, very near the rails, sort of nearly inbetween the rails.

It was designed for it because in my opinion they feature a short way to use a cnc, so they designed it for a 1-phase household electricity socket device. But that does not mean you have to stick on a hand-held router on the machine. You are just limited something narrow enough.

If I were a hobbyist, and feared water plumbing and disassembling the Z Slider for larger 80 mm mount, I would use this:
HFSAC-6508-24-ER11 65 mm 0.8 kW 24,000 rpm air-cooled
(I own a larger water-cooled from them).

But for the Mafell, do you own one already, in order to see if it really doesn’t fit?

Agreed!

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I have seen those options, I don’t need a spindle that bad. Short-term, I’m experimenting with a laser, then I will have tons of things to do with the Makita.
It’s really about the flexibility of the 43mm mount and the ability to buy a motor in a brand I trust, at a good price.

And indeed, I would rather buy than make the tool. More time to make things. Probably the age stuff :slight_smile:

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The 65mm original mount does place the router/spindle under the Z-stepper. I had a 800w 65mm spindle installed, and it had to fit under the Z-stepper. It fit, but it was tight.

The 80mm mount has more clearance, allowing a spindle to go on the outside of the Z-stepper. So, no more restrictions on height! Its a very tight fit - only .1" of clearance in my estimation - but it does clear it.

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Hey Michael,

This is very interesting and also very good to know! Thanks for the picture also!

I just got my OF and it came with the Makita setup. I have a smaller machine with an air cooled spindle (quite small) and the noise is substantially less than the router. I am interested in an air-cooled 110v 80mm spindle. Any suggestions… also, how significantly is time impacted by using the router or spindle?

Take a peek at this for a description of the voltages in play: 220v vs. 110v Spindle? - #6 by MikeH

I’ve used both 65mm/800w and 80mm/2.2kw air-cooled spindles on my 1F.

Using a spindle vs. the Makita router will not make a material difference in the speed of the operation - you may be able to go a little faster with a large spindle, but speed of operation isn’t the main reason people are usually upgrading.

A shorter time might be achieved by using a larger roughing tool in your spindle if capable.

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What do you think of the QCW table? I’m on the fence of getting it as I will be raising and lowering my set up as I use or don’t use (space issues)


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Hey Wallles,

still can’t say more, still waiting for it!

I love solutions on how to accommodate with small space!

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The lift to the ceiling is interesting. Did you build that; or, is it something that is commercially available?

Jim

Hey Jim, hey @Wallles,

I’d like to know that too. I searched the web for ceiling lift and ceiling winch but I finally found it with ceiling storage. It’s here:

RACOR PHL-1R CEILING STORAGE LIFT

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Sorry…back to the 65mm spindle. What would you recommend? I will be doing a bunch of stuff but in general want a quieter spindle I can use for long periods of time. There seems to be so many options and opinions.

TIA

I went with a Chinese Huanyang spindle and inverter. I don’t know if they make their spindles but they do make their VFDs and are a large company so I felt a little better choosing them than one of the distributors selling an unknown brand with their name on it. Even the “Japan” or German" bearing Chinese versions some are selling didn’t impress me. With so many counterfeit bearings out there I don’t think you would be able to tell even of you took it apart. Huanyang has an Amazon site which where I ordered my 2.2kW water cooled spindle. I didn’t look for 1.5kW air cooled ones but I assume they sell them. I can’t answer about a spindle made in the EU.

Edward, ETAL-

Is your spindle a 110 version or 220? I just received a g-penny 110VAC air cooled 1.5Kw with the Haunyang controller. I’m having a little difficulty with the controller settings. PD141 and PD142 are the motor voltage and current ratings, respectively. I can set PD141 to 110, but PD142 will not go any higher than 11.0 for the current rating of the motor. The motor plate shows a 12A rating for the motor. Also, it appears by DVM that pin 4 of the spindle connector is in fact grounded to the spindle housing. With that, I assume I can carry a shielded four conductor from the spindle and just bring pin 4 into the earth ground at the Haunyang?

Any advice/ input appreciated!

Hey Joe,

Possibly the VFD does not deliver more. What is its rated output power i.e. what is the model you have?

This is correct and mandatory.


– Source: Omron MX2 User’s Manual

Also don’t forget to set PD143 “Number of Poles”. It may be factory set to “4” which may be wrong if you purchased a 24,000 RPM spindle.

Thanks for the response. The VFD is a Huanyang HY02D211B with a 20A output. My spindle is a G-Penny GST1.5-65-24k 110VAC. So 24k rpm max. I believe its 2 pole, but cant seem to locate that info. Would you think shielded 18 AWG is sufficient for the run between the VFD and motor? Lastly, does the shield need to be connected to the ground at each end as well or is it just a passive EMI filter? Thanks!

Hey Joe,

So it is this one?

首页HY变频器110 V110V 2.2KW HY02D211B

At the moment, I do not know any reason why the value of PD142 should be restricted to 11 Amperes. If the VFD is rated 2.2 kW at 110 V Output that means 20 A.

Or is it a spindle/VFD bundle where the seller has set it this way and locked the settings using PD000=1?

But if set to 11 Amperes, it is okay for your 1,5 kW 110 V spindle, you can use it, don’t you?

PD142 Rated Motor Current Unit: 0.1A Factory Setting: *
It is set according to the rated value of the nameplate of the motor. This parameter can be used to restrict the output current of the inverter to prevent over-current and protect the motor. If the current of the motor has exceeded this value the inverter of AC motor will turn to self-protection.
– Source: Huanyang VFD Manual (PDF) on the “Connecting a Huanyang VFD” page at buildbotics.com

Yes, I know, these no-name chinese spindles (you don’t believe G-Penny is a spindle manufacturer? :slight_smile:) come without datasheet (although you would also need the voltage / frequency curve (e.g. like shown here) in order not to fall below the minimum speed, which can lead to bearing damage).

The spindle RPM is calculated this way:

SPINDLE_RPM = $VFD_FREQ × 2 × 60 / $SPINDLE_NUMBER_OF_POLES

As most VFDs are able to provide max. 400 Hertz and spindle manufacturers refer to this when they specify the RPM rating, this is mostly

400 Hz × 2 × 60 / 2 poles = 24,000 RPM.

Me no. Others maybe yes.

Cheap chinese VFD manuals say nothing about wire sizes. In the manual for my VFD, the Omron MX2 (User’s Manual) / Hitachi WJ200 (Instruction Manual), it is recommended under “Determining Wire and Fuse Sizes” on page 45 rsp. 12:

Determining Wire and Fuse Sizes
The maximum motor currents in your application determines the recommended wore size. The following table gives the wire size. The “Power Lines” column applies to the inverter input power, output wires to the motor, the earth ground connection, and any other components shown in the “Basic System Description” on page 28.
[…]

Power Lines

220 Volts(!) single phase input, CT mode:

Power (kW)Power (HP)

Cross-section Area

American Wire Gauge

0.1 kW1/8 HP 1.3 mm² AWG 16
0.2 kW1/4 HP 1.3 mm² AWG 16
0.4 kW1/2 HP 1.3 mm² AWG 16
0.75 kW1 HP 1.3 mm² AWG 16
1.5 kW2 HP 3.3 mm² AWG 12
2.2 kW3 HP 5.3 mm² AWG 10
[...]

Note that in the table above there are no entries for 110 Volts since Omron/Hitachi manufactures no VFDs for 110 V. But if your VFD’s input power and your spindle are rated 110 Volts, then there flows the double current in Ampères as would with 220 Volts and you have to increase wire sizes accordingly!

Note:
With a 1.5 kW spindle at 240 V there flows 6.25 A current
With a 1.5 kW spindle at 120 V there flows 12.5 A current

The wire sizes mentioned in the table above seem high. Of course you can use thinner wires, but there are reasons for such recommendations.

The wire size for a known current is not defined absolutely. It is defined by a formula which includes power loss and efficiency loss over the wire length. The cross-section area of a wire is inversely proportional to its resistance which strongly affects power and efficiency loss. However these are dimensions that the operator can choose according to their requirements or guidelines.

Note that for dimensioning the wire size, only the current is relevant, neither the power nor the voltage.

If you ask me whether I really put 5.3 mm² (AWG 10) in my drag chain, I say, presently no. If you ask me which wire size I use, at the moment I own a 2.2 kW 230 V spindle which means 9.5 A current, and for 9-12 A I would take nothing under 2.5 mm² (corresponding to 13 AWG). However a webshop I know, for this spindle sells cable with 1.5 mm² (corresponding to 15 AWG).

Note that there is a nice comparison chart for American Wire Gauge to IEC 60228 wire cross-section area in this file:

The fourth wire is used as Protective Earth (PE) which is extremely important for safety and MUST be connected between Spindle casing and VFD casing or VFD PE connector which itself must be connected to ground. It has to be at least the same wire size than the other three 3-phase wires. As for the shield of the cable, it is connected to this PE wire at both sides.

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