I’m somewhat new to this community, but huge thanks for the many helpful folks here. Nick created this thread to share how following the recommended setup can still result in an out-of-square machine.
Huge thanks to Nick and the discussion there, but it seems most of that thread was people who found out their machine was a parallelogram AFTER already setting it up. (I cut a full grid into my waste board before realizing it was not square… oops)
So this thread it hopefully to catch folks BEFORE setting up the machine. I created this PDF to share the dimensions that would create an accurate setup. I hope it helps.
(And if this info is already here, sorry, happy to remove this thread.)
(Note: this information was created based on the drawings provided by Onefinity, they are as accurate as the information provided and also assume the two side bars are equal in length. I’m only providing this as a starting guide to be helpful, your setup still depends on you.)
I remember when we were writing in the thread you mentioned above, I asked myself if it is good to use the specifications provided by Onefinity since they seem to differ, I found these dimensions on page 15 of the manual:
You see they are not the same. My conclusion was, there is obviously some variation in the dimensions, and I would be better off with waiting for the specific machine to arrive and take the individual measurements then.
But what one can do in any case, is to draw a large right angle on the table top and align the machine later.
Also what should be considered is that the positions of the feet do not necessarily guarantee the position of the rails(!). Not only the feet can be shifted on the rails before they are fixed by the manufacturer, but also the rails and the bearings are held with set screws that allow them to be moved by a small amount sideways. And finally the feet can be twisted. All of this would speak for an individual positioning of the screw holes for the feet, individually for each machine.
There is an expression in german that says “I don’t want to pour water into your wine”. Sorry if I did it please forgive me!
I agree 110% with everything you said, essentially, check the machine you get. When I checked my machine against some of the dims I found, they were the same. (I used the most recent manual I could find, since some of the original beta machine dims float around out there.)
But yes, please, for anyone, use this as a starting point only, and if nothing else, just check your diagonals.
Another tip. Do not over tighten the bolts between your X-rail and Y-rail mounts before you have made adjustments for square. If they are too tight then this fixes the angle between them and you can’t adjust the angle.
Also after checking the feet for square I jogged the router with a vbit to mark pin point (X,Y) coordinates on the table at (0,0), (0,600), (800,0), and (800,600) mm. Then check these locations against an accurate ruler to verify. Then check the hypotenuse between the 800 and 600 mm legs. It should be exactly 1000mm or else you need more adjustment for square.
Pardon my naivete, my machine has not yet arrived but…
Why can’t we just move the router with a bit to each of the four corners (maxed out), lower the bit and mark the point where the bit touches the surface.
Then cross measure the points to confirm squareness.
Adjust frame until diagonal measurements are equal.
You could, and this would also be a good way to verify square. SkyKam is suggesting the 3,4,5 method, either would work.
Would suggest though, get your frame dialed in as best you can before testing and adjusting further, you have a little bit of room to adjust the frame, but not much, so if it’s sitting correctly before you drive home the screws, all the better.
At least, I wish I had done better from the start.
The ones say, ensure perpendicularity by comparing it with a reference object.
The disadvantage is that a reference object, already of the size needed with Onefinity Woodworker Machine (32″), i.e. a precision square of sufficient length and at the same time sufficient accuracy, is quite expensive, a three digits sum if you want that accuracy and size.
The others, including me, say, ensure perpendicularity through geometry.
With this, you don’t need expensive measurement tools or such things. You don’t even need a ruler. Take a stick and saw it off so that it fits diagonally between the opposite ends of the object you want to “square”, and then turn it between the other two opposite ends, and if it fits equally tightly, then the diagonals are the same and the angle is right (= the machine is “square”). That’s all.
You can make it more comfortable by making your stick out of two parallel sticks that you can move against each other and fix them with Bar Gauge Heads. It’s called Bar gauge then.
Anyway I find your PDF helpful, one can use it to prepare the tabletop while awaiting the machine. Especially if you say that you checked the dimensions against your real machine:
I find it good that you showed metric measurements.
For the measurements in inches, what I find a bit confusing, is that you mixed feet and inches. I assume that US Citizen are used to this? For me it’s a units mix. I would have preferred the sizes in inches not mixed with feet. But it does not matter for me, as I don’t use inches when metric measurements are there. Yes, I know, one foot is twelve inches. But it is confusing, if I see something like “3′ 8 3/64″” I first have to compute 12*3+8+3/64 = to get 44.047 inches
Yes. Our rulers, tapes, etc are also marked in feet & inches. Pretty easy to find a measurement by looking for the large number (feet) and then the inches after. You won’t really find a measuring tape that is marked in running inches (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4…50, 51, 52, 53 etc). Our tape measures are measured incrementally by feet and then in between each foot, resets to 1-11 and within the inch are generally marked in qtrs, eighths and sixteenths.
I use dual system tapes - ones with imperial on one edge and metric on the other. I find it quicker to find the center of something using the metric side and following standard plans with the imperial size (especially since our materials are generally in feet/inches and a saw blade takes a 1/8" kerf with each cut).
I’m new to this forum and reading stuff while waiting for my Woodworker to arrive, but measuring the diagonals would only work if the Y rails are exactly the same length.
Is there much experience of this not being the case? I was under the impression all machines were tested before they were sent out, or is this just for the functionality?
Thanks
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
12
Hey Peter,
that is perfectly correct.
As far as I know, no, at least I can’t remember someone reporting to have measured it. As I’m still waiting for my machine, for the Y rails being equal, I assume it.
PS: Note that the Bar Gauge described above can also be used to first ensure the Y rails being equal
The diagonals don’t need to be a certain distance, but rather they just need to be equal no matter what their length. I just set up my Journeyman using a variation on your idea. I took two inexpensive 36" metal rulers (one on top of the other) and extended them to fit the two inside corners of the feet. I used a Czeck Edge ruler stop to clamp them together. Then, just move it over to the opposite diagonal and checked again. Just wiggle the rulers gently and you’d be amazed what your fingers can pick up in terms of even the slightest slop. The ruler stop made it a breeze to make slight adjustments to length and retry.
A few things as I have the machine and have made a good series of mistakes when squaring it up.
I would not trust any dimensions posted, based on what I have seen from how these are constructed. I think they could easily be off by a millimeter or two.
I would not rely on stall homing (“maxed out” to go to the back corners. It isn’t consistent against the back (or to the right) and I have found manually running it to the rear (or side) limits will cause cause the offset to be off.
I think the best approach is to follow the @GeeksWoodShop general guidelines just use some algebra to figure out out your own measurements. That will likely get you to within a few millimeters or so. Than use the method I described in my post linked below, to draw a large square and check the difference between diagonals and if needed shim. While I have found my extra long metric ruler very useful as other have mentioned you don’t need it. All you need to do is measure the delta between the two which could be done with a piece of aluminum or angle.
Just remember to rehome after each adjustment and make sure it is actually making contact.
Using measurements across the machine assume the distances between the 4 points are the same, if you have trapezoid where one of the dimensions is shorter than the others, you can still measure the same corner to corner yet the machine is not set up correctly.
I would suggest laying out a 3-4-5 triangle or something similar to square your legs at the front of the machine where it will stall home, this will help ensure the gantry is square to the y rails even if the y rails are different lengths (they should not be but it is plausible).
I know this is an older topic but I think I might have something to add… When you square your machine, and get it all clamped in place and you’re ready to screw it down, what happens??? For me, the screw was at an angle and that forced the machine out of square as I drove the screw home. All that time wasted… I know I could have gotten an extension for my drill but I love to create solutions to problems that are much more elaborate than the original problem - especially when it involves using my 1943 Southbend lathe. So I made this tool to drill pilot holes precisely in the center of the the mounting holes.
The dimensions perfectly match the counterbored mounting holes however… I discovered that some of the mounting holes are actually undersized - they’re not all exactly the same! Very surprising…
Even with the inconsistent size in mounting holes, this solved the problem of the screw going in sideways. However, I still haven’t achieved perfection in getting the entire CNC square.
Here is my setup - I used a piece of aluminum stock as my reference and measured the diagonals as shown here.
Using this technique I managed to get the machine pretty square before driving the screws home however when I ran a test using a 6,8,10 triangle, it was still off by about 1/32" on the hypotenuse…
Going to try again using the aluminum bar down at the feet of the frame instead of the top of the frame but I’m not expecting much better results.
I’m still in search of a better method however (and this is where I think I may have a novel idea based on all I’ve read in this forum) it occurred to me that you might achieve very good results if you had someone with a larger machine than yours, and known to be dead nuts square, mill your mounting board with all the mounting holes pre drilled to the exact dimensions of your machine. This seems like a good idea but I’m looking for holes in my on logic.
.
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
18
Hey stuperduck,
Also I would check if the black aluminium extrusion feet are really at the same distance on left and right Y axis before assembling.
please forgive me!
