Looking for recommendations for a er20/2.2kw/220v/80mm starter spindle

Machines (Elite Series)
21

I have the same thing but air cooled and it works flawlessly.

22

PezWoodworks, you are running the HY from the link Dustoff00 posted?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078J5CXP3

Or something like this?

23

I am using one like you mention, pretty sure the HY VFD’s are all the same, I bought a G-penny Spindle as it is what I have been led to believe PWN uses from other post’s I have seen here, I got mine from AileExpress, again, I believe it is all pretty much the same, the VFD has a pretty cheesy plastic enclosure but I mounted mine in a VEVOR steel box as many here have done.
Works great, I struggled a little with the VFD settings but there is a lot of specific info on the Masso forum site.
Hope this helps.
If money was no issue I would go with Daniel at PWNCNC, he makes it very easy, I am a tight wad and like to tinker so I went my way.
Pat

1 Like
24

So you are using this spindle?
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255799905827019.html

Do you think its the same thing as this one, PWNCNC adds the cable in too.

25

Hey Aaron, hey all,

I know that the PwnCNC VFD is the DELIXI Hangzhou Inverter Co., Ltd. CDI-EM61, because the manual is on the PwnCNC website and we discussed some settings the other day with Daniel. Unlike the Huanyang HY Series and the identical VFDs without Huanyang label, the DELIXI CDI-EM61 VFD supports Sensorless Vector Control.

1 Like
26

Hey Aaron,
I did the same thing, bought the rattmotor trying to save some cash but you will be forking over another 100-150 for the power cable and another 75 ish for the cable to connect to the masso. Not to mention a few hours making cables and going through manuals and videos. If I could go back in time I probably would’ve went with the pwn off the bat just for simplicity and seems like better quality… it ends up being an extra 400 but let’s face it if you can justify the machine you can justify the extra cash…or throw a Makita on there for 140 to get familiar and then upgrade shortly there after (that’s what I did). All that being said I have had no issues with the spindle at all, vfd I’m not so sure about, could never get it to be controlled by the masso so I power it on and adjust manually everytime. Also had to double one of the settings to get it to go to 24000rpm and the amp rating is 2 amps less than the max for the spindle so probably not getting full power. And if all that bothers you then by the time you get a hitachi vfd, good cables and a Chinese spindle you’d be right up there with the pwn plug and play kit. Just my experience, good luck!

1 Like
27

Here’s the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTGe6mDhw3Q

28

Hey Adam,

had a quick look at your video (did not watch in its entirety, just jumped chapters).

At this moment in the video, you say that the PwnCNC 2.2 kW spindle has 3 hp power while the Makita hand trim router has 1.25 hp power, so the spindle would have more than twice the power.

But by saying this you make the Makita much better than it really is. This is because you can’t compare the horsepowers with which the Makita trim router is sold, with the horsepowers of a spindle, because on the Makita, what they give you is the electric power consumption, and not the mechanical power delivery at the end of the shaft. The available mechanical power is always much less than the drawn electric power, but the power rating with which they sell you the Makita, is the drawn electric power. They sell you a hand trim router with rated 230 V * 3.1 A = 713 W (≈1 hp) (International version) or 110 V * 6.5 A = 715 W (US version) (≈1 hp) respectively, but this is what it will draw, not what it will deliver.

(Conversion: 1 electric hp in the USA = 746 electric W).

By the way how they come to “1¼ hp” is a mystery.

For spindles, that are no power hand tools like the Makita hand trim router, but a motor, which is made to be a component of a machine, they have to comply to IEC 60034-1, which says, the mandatory power rating on the nameplate has to tell the mechanical power available at the shaft, not the electrical power draw. Otherwise engineers would not be able to compare motors, because motors have different efficiency. What you want to compare is the mechanical power they can deliver. That is a very different physical quantity than the electric power, and you want to know what a motor delivers to be able to size it for the application. Some motors deliver more mechanical power with the same electric power drawn as other motors. A good example is a 65 mm spindle and a 80 mm spindle. With the same Volt and Ampère ratings, the efficiency of the 80 mm spindle is higher, and so is the mechanical power delivered at the end of its shaft.

In this example, I show that a spindle that delivers 2.2 kW mechanical power at its shaft, and that is rated with 230 V and 8 A, draws 2.6 kVA so-called real electric power, and draws approx 3.2 kVA so-called apparent electric power, which is the power that really flows, with one part flowing back so you don’t pay for it but this is the value you need to size your spindle cable’s wire gauge and connector Ampère rating, because it really flows.

VFDs take this into account. If you buy a “2.2 kW” VFD, this means it is “made for a spindle that can deliver 2.2 kW mechanical power at its shaft”. That is why such a VFD is able to provide 3.8–4.5 kW electrical power, or up to 11 A per phase in constant torque mode and S1 duty mode. A spindle with good efficiency will deliver 2.2 kW mechanical power by drawing 8 A, but one with poor efficiency may need to draw 11 A to deliver the same 2.2 kW mechanical power.

The Omron MX2 2.2 kW VFD (identical to Hitachi WJ200 2.2 kW) VFD output capacity ratings:

@200 V × 11 A × √3 = 3.8105 kW
@220 V × 11 A × √3 = 4.1916 kW
@240 V × 11 A × √3 = 4.5726 W
– Source: Omron MX2 datasheet

So you can safely assume that your 2.2 kW (3 hp) spindle has not twice the mechanical power than a Makita hand trim router, but at least three times more, probably four times more, because a Makita hand trim router is not only sold without any mechanical power rating at all, but it is also no brushless induction motor like a spindle, with its excellent efficiency, but a universal motor with carbon brush commutators. Such a motor has a much worse efficiency than a spindle. Furthermore, the hand trim router will have its maximum efficiency and maximum torque only at one specific speed, while a spindle on a VFD can deliver constant torque over a wide speed range (typically 6 000–24 000 rpm) (see also hand trim router / spindle comparison).

1 Like
29

Thank you for this clarification. I wish it was possible to incorporate this into the already posted video.

1 Like
30

That is the spindle I have, whether it is the same as PWNCNC, I am not positive but have read on this forum that is what he uses, I also opted for ceramic bearings.
Also mentioned on this forum repeatedly the VFD is the more important component, for me the HY does what I need, I see a lot of talk of sensorless vector control, and for me its not an issue, as hard as I push my machine it is not enough load to benefit from this feature, in my opinion anyway.
There are many different opinions on this forum .
Thanks, Pat

31

I bought this kit from Amazon a year ago and have run 350 jobs with no trouble at all.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0775S7KFW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077BYVT56/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

32

Hey Pat, hey Bob @ColoBob,

If your VFD only supports dumb V/f control, you can still tweak the V/f settings to your needs. There are settings and often also diagrams in the manual that show how to make use of these settings. The difference is, V/f control is not adapting to the load situation like sensorless Vector Control (SVC) is. SVC is de facto a standard on VFDs today, so to see people buying VFDs with no SVC capability is a little bit sad. Even a lot of cheap chinese VFDs support SVC today.

But I think if people want to make their first experience with VFD and spindle, they can buy the most cheapest option. I am not discriminating anyone and can perfectly understand the motivation. What I do is just warn a little bit and say, there is the risk that

  1. you may think this is what spindles/VFDs provide, without ever knowing what you miss without a quality spindle/VFD, and

  2. that if you really manage to solder a much too weak motor cable into an “aviation” connector (unsuited for this application) (instead of having a suitable spindle cable made by the spindle manufacturer, with an industry-grade motor connector and high-quality crimped contacts) and if one of your soldered contacts is not well done, makes problems.

  3. The greatest danger comes from following the instructions like in the spindle offer you bought where they tell you to connect only the U,V,W wires and omit to connect the PE wire (!!!).

I can’t repeat often enough:

Also if you buy a spindle from a reputable spindle manufacturer, or from Daniel @PwnCNC, you always have someone to address to in case of problems. You will hardly be able to find out who in China produces the no-name and the Huanyang labeled spindles and to ask for support. What you will get is, if any, the support from a dealer of cheap stuff, not from a manfacturer. But you will get good support when you buy your spindle from a reputable manfacturer or at least from a reputable CNC components supplier like Sorotec.

33

Aaron
Ive just taken delivery of my Onefinity, and looked for a long time at spindles and what options were best for me, in the end I’ve gone with a ‘G Penny’ 2.2kw water cooled bullet spindle with ceramic bearings, as this was £250 (UK) including shipping, which only took 3 weeks to arrive. I did have to order it via Ali express. Ive then ordered an ‘Invertek’ VFD, as these are made here in the UK and are a better quality to the cheaper Chinese vesions.
I’m impressed with the build quality of the spindle, but, only time will tell on how it performs long term.

Hope this is of sone help.

Mark

1 Like
34

I also bought a G Penny spindle with ceramic bearings for ~$145. This is married to the GT version of the HY VFD (~$140) which supports sensor less vector control. This VFD uses a Texas Instruments DSP which speaks to the capabilities. I posted the wiring connections on this forum as they are different than the older HY VFD.

Hope this helps.
Kenric

2 Likes
35

Hey Kenric,

I don’t know how, but I missed that you posted this. Thank you, I think the community appreciates that. I will link it with the other Masso-to-VFD tables so that it is easy to find.

Is it the Generic Ferrule Conductor to GX12 6-pin variant?

36

Here is the link

37

Yes, it is the Generic Ferrule Conductor to GX12 6-pinvariant

38

Has anyone had experience with this spindle or this company?

39

I think Ive decided to go with the spindle from the above link.
Im curious what people smarted than me between these 2 VFDs?

and

https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Frequency-Controller-Converter-HUANYANG/dp/B077KS9LRY

The 2nd one mentions vector control (GT series)

40

Don’t do it bro! Just make a shim and strap a trim router on for now. Beans & rice till you can swing the pwn. You’ve waited this long, you’ve come this far. If you buy a cheesy spindle, it will be just that much longer you’ll delay buying a good one. Be strong!

2 Likes