Power / spindle / dust collector question

[Aiph5u (Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))]

Hey Pat, hey all,

I updated my post above:

@Aiph5u

There are however other ways to switch your dust collection on and off than a relay directly connected to the VFD control output. Big dust collection system manufacturers offer solutions where you simply put an inductive sensor contactlessly over the motor cable of a power tool and it senses if it’s on and turns dust collection on. One example is shown here: Felder automatic start of dust extraction system. Another is the iVAC Pro Switch. In those cases, you would put the inductive sensor over the spindle cable, which means the VFD output cable, not the VFD input cable.

@PezWoodworks

I have been in contact with IVac and they just now have developed and selling a system specifically for Supercell and any CNC Router with auto dust collector activation.
It will be a device that turns on the Super cell without any rewiring and use a sensor that plugs into the Onefinity 120 VAC port that you normally would plug your Vacuum into, you still use the original remote for all other tools in your shop.
When I get the quote from IVAC I will post it here.

Looking forward to it

[RickDuVall]

Here is how I can trigger my Supercell from the PWN IOT box.
Plugged in a work light with 100 watt bulb into the normally off plug on the IOT box.
Clipped the IVac sensor on the work light cord.
100 watt bulb draws enough power to trigger the sensor which opens the gate and turns on the on Supercell.
I didn’t think the signal to the spindle would be enough to trigger the sensor.

[Aiph5u (Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))]

Hey Rick,

@RickDuVall

I didn’t think the signal to the spindle would be enough to trigger the sensor.

@PwnCNC That’s the big disadvantage when VFD manufacturers use SSRs instead of real relays in a VFD’s internal relay output or in an IoT relay switch. They need very small currents to be triggered, but to hold their active state then, they need a relatively high constant current on the switching side (usually about 100 mA), because in fact they are not relays but semiconductors.

@RickDuVall

100 watt bulb draws enough power to trigger the sensor which opens the gate and turns on the on Supercell.

You use a real Edison lamp? Edison lamps are forbidden here in the EU since they emit their energy to 90 % as heat (and only an extremely small fraction as light). All light bulbs offered were replaced by LEDs in the last twenty years. The last ediscon lamps allowed were with G9 socket and only if they were halogen light bulbs, but they disappeared from the market now too. But we have excellent LEDs here that are dimmable and with Ra>95, so excellent, high quality colors that the white light is composed of, and cheap meanwhile.

But usually 100 mA would be enough to make a SSR hold the state. No need to further warm up the planet with an 100 W Edison lamp (@120 V = 833 mA, @240 V =416 mA).

Should someone use the Felder automatic start of dust extraction system or the iVAC Pro Switch to trigger dust collection on, it’s the spindle motor cable to put inside the coil to trigger the relay. Regarding the high current of a spindle motor, no problems for the iVAC coil to trigger the relay.

[WaywardWoodworker (Derek Lokee)]

@Aiph5u

Edison lamps are forbidden here in the EU since they emit their energy to 90 % as heat

US Congress had passed laws to phase them out but the Hasbro Easy Bake Oven lobby got to them and they have since repealed the laws

[Aiph5u (Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))]

Hey Derek,

I’ve been hoarding the forbidden stuff (mostly reflector spotlights and Halogen G9 bulbs) up to now and still have some in stock because I need the dimming, especially when reading in the evening or on the bed. You can really dim them down to zero. But the new LEDs with Ra>97, and dimmable, are fantastic. I have checked them with a spectroscope. I think I can now go on Edison detox with peace of mind.

[TMToronto]

The picture you paint reminds me of some dystopian cyberpunk movies I have watched
Don’t let the neighbors see your collection of banned bulbs!

[Aiph5u (Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))]

Hey Tom,

painting this picture was intentionally for fun, of course it is allowed to own them, just to sell them is no more allowed if you are a dealer.

[studiotoiyabe (Elijah)]

Hi all - I just ordered an iVac Pro switch + the tool sensor. In reading through this thread, I’m sure that I can make it work with my setup one way or another (Elite, Oneida Dust Cobra, PWN VFD/spindle). I’d prefer not to attach the tool sensor to the spindle motor cable, as this is pretty awkward placement for wiring with how my shop is laid out - considering that the tool sensor itself must be plugged into an additional outlet or USB.

Can someone tell me what the “on” position of the rocker switch on the tool sensor does as opposed to “auto?” If it simply acts as a remote switch without the need for the current sensing feature, this could seemingly be plugged into the Elite’s auto-vac outlet without the need to attach it to any other wires.

PS @RickDuVall, I also thought about attaching the sensor to a light bulb and had a good laugh when I saw that someone else was eccentric enough to go down that path.

[PezWoodworks (Pat)]

I Vac has a system designed for exactly what you are doing, contact tech support and they can help you out.
Pat

[studiotoiyabe (Elijah)]

Interesting - I don’t see anything else on their website. I’ve contacted them asking for their secret menu. Thanks!

[PezWoodworks (Pat)]

I worked with Tom, he did tell me that it had not been published as of yet .
Pat

[studiotoiyabe (Elijah)]

Do you have the model number of what you were sold? This is a device that plugs into the auto vac port of the 1F to send a signal to the iVac Pro switch? Or something else entirely? Working with CS at the moment.

[PezWoodworks (Pat)]

I did not purchase the system, in discussion with Tom in Tech Support, the device plugs into the Vac port in the back of the PS and then another remote starts and stops the Dust collector using G Code.
Hope this helps
Pat

[studiotoiyabe (Elijah)]

I finally figured this out with iVac support, so I will post here for visibility: to use a dust collector >10A with the 1F auto vac outlet, all that is needed is the iVac Contactor. Other iVac components are only needed if expanding the dust collection system to additional tools.

[PezWoodworks (Pat)]

Yes, I was planning on integrating the 1F as just another tool in the system, just haven’t done it yet.
Thanks, Pat

[RickDuVall]

I got this to work attaching the iVac sensor to the spindle cable leaving the PWN VFD. The light bulb solution was interesting but not really needed since there is no mistaking the sound of a running CNC as a warning.

Rick

[BKurk]

I just went through this same process. Oneida provided the attached diagram for adding start/stop functions to the supercell mag starter. My opinion is it is annoyingly complicated in the base wiring due to the addition of the wireless remote but it is what it is. It is not not designed to be torn apart and reworked and the starter is a packaged solution from their vendor. The diagram shows buttons but you can use an appropriate relay in place of buttons. The problem with a relay without getting into some complicated momentary wiring is that the start relay contact will stay closed as long as the machine is calling for vacuum (I used M8/M9 on Output 17 to a 24vac coil SPDT 250VAC main 16a mains off board relay). This means the off buttons only stops the VAC while held until the controller calls for vacuum off. I added a separate Emergency Stop button/relay in the power supply circuit, effectively another inline mag starter so I could absolutely shut the supercell down quickly by slapping the mushroom if I had to. I haven’t figure our how to make this work with the Masso ES without breaking something else yet. An item on the list to make this more elegant, but it works for now. I hope this helps.

[BKurk]

Typo above, 24vdc coil relay.