Power / spindle / dust collector question

Hi all, complete newb here. Have ordered an elite foreman and an oneida supercell, and trying to figure out which spindle to get. I will probably go with pwncnc. Since the DC is 220v, do I need to get a 220v spindle so that I can have the spindle and DC start up at the same time? From what I gather the foreman only does that with a router, i.e. I cannot use what’s on the foreman to start up the DC and spindle at the same time - in that case, how do people do it? Is there a separate power supply you can get to plug both the spindle and DC into?

Sorry if it’s a dumb question. Tried exploring the forums for this answer but couldn’t find anything. Thanks!

I have a Supercell and it as you mention is 220 VAC, I don’t think you can connect it to the Masso supply and control it like you could a 120 Volt shop vac.
The spindle is no problem especially with the pwcnc, it is plug and play, but if you go with the 2.2 Kw spindle you most likely will need a 220 power source to power it, separate from the DC power.
I would be interested to see how you end up doing this, I think you will need a separate relay but I am not that good with electrics.
You probably will get a lot of good feed back here.

Thanks, Pat

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I think everyone is having similar issue using the power supply to auto start the dc. I ended up going with the Ivac set up (a little pricey but works great and easy to set up). Basically you plug the dc into a wireless transmitter and clip a usb powered sensor on the cord coming from the spindle (which is powered by the masso) and then have a remote. It’s a niece heavy duty system and expandable to automatic blast gates and like 8 machines if you so desire. I think for the remote, sensor and transmitter was around 180 bucks but after setting it up my only regret was waiting 3 months to spend the dough. Good luck brother

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Hey David,

No, the one has nothing to do with the other. However there are many reasons to avoid a 120 V spindle, because at same power (kW), half the voltage (Volts) means double the current (Ampères), especially if you want it to have more than 0.75 kW. There is a search function in this forum.

The relay in the Elite power supply for North and Latin America and Japan, which means, the 120 V version, can only switch a 120 V 10 A shop vacuum. If you have a serious dust collection system, you will have to implement another solution with a relay to let the CNC controller dust collection automatically go on and off by the g-code program. There is a search function in this forum.

No.

The Onefinity Elite Power Supply. Left: Version for North and Central America and Japan, right: Version for the rest of the world.

A spindle is a three-phase frequency-controlled induction motor and is always driven by a VFD. A VFD is an inverter that first transforms the input AC current into DC current, stores it in a big capacitor, and then, by switching on and off six IGBTs, creates the three-phase current needed by the spindle. A VFD can be controlled by the CNC controller via a spindle control cable (wiring).

In the g-code program, the M3 (start spindle) command sends the control signal to the VFD for the RUN command, and M5 (stop spindle) command sends the control signal for STOP to the VFD.

:warning: Important note: A spindle is NEVER switched on and off by a switch or relay, but only by sending the RUN/STOP commands to the VFD. Otherwise you may destroy both the spindle and/or the VFD.

Similarly, via the same spindle control cable, an analog control voltage is output by the CNC controller that sends the speed for the spindle to the VFD. The speed is set with g-code too, with the S command.

Note: This is valid for the Onefinity Elite Series with the MASSO G3 CNC controller, which does not support Modbus communication. On other CNC controllers, like the buildbotics-derived Original Series Onefinity controller, the CNC controller supports Modbus so you wire the VFD’s RS485 communication to it instead.

A water-cooled spindle needs a water coolant pump. VFDs have relay outputs for this purpose, with which the VFD switches spindle coolant pump on when the spindle runs and off after spindle is stopped. You may even program your VFD in a way to continue cooling of the spindle for a while after the spindle was stopped.

Similarly, if your VFD has enough control outputs, it can control an external relay which is connected to your dust collection system and can switch it on an off automatically.

Here you can see a circuit diagram which shows how the VFD can switch the dust collector on and off automatically:

It has an additional manual switch, so that you can still use the dust collector for other power tools at the same time, like a circular saw and others, while the VFD can switch it on and off automatically (by the CNC) at the same time.

There are however other ways to switch your dust collection on and off than a relay directly connected to the VFD control output. Big dust collection system manufacturers offer solutions where you simply put an inductive sensor contactlessly over the motor cable of a power tool and it senses if it’s on and turns dust collection on. One example is shown here: Felder automatic start of dust extraction system. Another is the iVAC Pro Switch. In those cases, you would put the inductive sensor over the spindle cable, which means the VFD output cable, not the VFD input cable.

Welcome to the forum!

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Does Masso turn it on and off or do you with the remote?

With the plug and play spindle, there is a cable that connects the VFD to Masso. Then Masso can turn on the spindle, set the speed and turn off the spindle when the job i done. Simple

If your spindle/router is turned on by the masso (plugged in to the back of the 1F power supply) then you clip the sensor on that cable and it will turn on and off with the spindle I’ll send you a pic but it does what you want it to do, turn on and off with the carve

Thanks for the info I look forward to seeing what you do

To give you a simple and direkt answer to your question:

The PWNCN spindle built in outlet for a plug for an IOT device (plug is included in spindle set). You need to buy a few feet of iot cable and the iot and the shopvac will switch on (and off after the carve) once the spindle reaches 5k rpm. Installation takes 5 minutes. The shopvac does not have to have the same voltage as the spindle.

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The Super Cell has a magnetic switch andis normally turned on and off by a remote so I am not sure this will work with the Super Cell.
Pat




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They do have a 220v model. This is just how I did it and it works and simple but 1000 ways to skin a cat. No experience with pwn but I’m sure if you emailed customer service before buying and gave em the specs of your dc they will guide you in the right direction.

Ok cool. I will look into that. It sounds like exactly what I’ll need. Thanks!

I just purchased a separate remote for my super cell and double taped it to my cnc table. Since my duct work supplies several woodworking machines, the hard part is remembering to open the blast gate dedicated to the cnc!

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Do you have to manually turn the DC on and off? Or does Masso do it ?

Pat

I haven’t read all the replies yet, so this might have been mentioned already.

I spoke with PWMCNC support. There are 2 options we discussed.
1 - put the iVac current senor on the spindle power cable and that should trigger when the spindle starts.
2 - use the PWN IOT box and connect something to the triggered outlet and put the current sensor on that power cord. This should start the SuperCell.

I’m still about 4 weeks out on getting my Elite Foreman so I can’t actually test it yet.

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yes, the ivac sensor needs to go on the spindle power cable coming off the vfd not the power cord from the 1f as i previously had it (it worked the first few times that way but became intermittent for some reason. after switching it to the cable coming off the vfd to the spindle no issues…)

Hey Bill, hey William, hey Pat, hey Tom, hey Don, hey Dave, hey all,

I would put it on the spindle cable too, because the way like VFDs work, drawing input power does not happen absolutely 1:1 like delivering output power, but delivering output power in any case means the motor is turning (and wood dust production can be assumed). It may however also work if the spindle acts as a generator and not as a motor, which means, as long it delivers its power to the brake chopper/brake resistor when stopped. But that’s a more theoretical problem as finally the motor, and thus through the electromagnetical sensor on the cable, the dust collector, will stop.

I prefer to manually operate my Oneida super cell, since it’s hooked up to other woodworking machines (tablesaws, etc.). Each machine having it’s own blast gate. My only issue was with Oneida’s was shipping charges for such a small remote. They agreed and reduced the shipping. So, if ordering a extra remote, call them.

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I have been in contact with IVac and they just now have developed and selling a system specifically for Supercell and any CNC Router with auto dust collector activation.
It will be a device that turns on the Super cell without any rewiring and use a sensor that plugs into the Onefinity 120 VAC port that you normally would plug your Vacuum into, you still use the original remote for all other tools in your shop.
When I get the quote from IVAC I will post it here.
Thanks, Pat

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