I didn’t take your comment as hostile in any way, and my use of the phrase was in jest.
However I was serious in thanking you for correcting my error.
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I feel that if you want to go to a 48 x 96 bed and do it right you’re going to be half way to building your own custom machine. You can use the X and Z rails and the controller but you’re going to need all new Y rails. If you just use longer steel tubes there will probably be some sag in the middle, especially with the heavier 2.2kW spindle. I’d suggest going with support-shaft rails and open (C-shaped) linear bearings. Then you’d have to do something to ensure that the ~100" rails are perfectly straight. It’s all doable but if your want to do it right it may be more work (and expense) than you’re willing to do. The easiest way is to use your ‘Journeyman’ and figure out where on your material you can place some 1/4" holes to use as indices and just tile the large carving. I realize it’s not ideal but I assume you don’t want to put out $10k+ to get a full-sized machine. Feel free to ask questions, if you have any.
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Ok, upon reviewing the original post I realize that I mis-read it. Somehow I thought you wanted to go to a 4’ x 8’ bed. That’s a big jump. I’ll blame my error on being on vacation in Hawaii and the mai tais. Now that I’m back and in a more serious frame of mind here’s some real numbers that should help you.
I built a quick CAD model of the Y-rail and ran a FEA to analyze the displacement due to the load. I made some assumptions to get things done but they are the same across all configurations so at least the relative differences should be similar. So, assuming that the Journeyman X-50 rail with spindle is 50 lbs I put a 25 lb load on the center of the rail. Here’s the result for the original Y rail:
The displacement scale on the right shows that the standard WW will deflect about 0.0006 in. That’s really good for a hobby machine. Note the displacement is multiplied 2000 times for visibility.
Here’s what it looks like if we just use longer 35 mm tubes to get 48" of travel:
Now we have about 2 thousandths of displacement. That’s over a three fold increase. Now realistically 2 thousandths of an inch is not a lot and you’re unlikely to even see it, especially if you’re just doing a carving.
Here’s what it looks like if you use 50 mm rails for 48" of travel:
That brings us just about back to the original Journeyman with 0.00065 inches of displacement.
So if you can live with 0.002 inches of sag then just buy longer 35 mm rails and screws. Just a note but in my experience I’ve found that hollow rails are considerably more expensive than solid ones. I’m sure that OF is getting a deal by buying hundreds of feet at a time. You can use solid rails but you’ll lose the nice wires inside the rails. You may have to flip the motors to the other end and reverse their direction.
Unfortunately, going with 50 mm rails won’t be as easy as getting OF to sell you two more X-50 rails. You’d need to make new carriages for the Y-rails to mount eh X-rail to. So unless you have access to a milling machine you’re better off waiting for OF to offer a 48" x 48" machine and upgrade.
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Thank you for doing that. It is nice to know those numbers. Although, I suspect they have the potential to double if you consider worst case scenarios like the z-axis slider being all the way to one side of the x-axis and well as reaction moment from the x-axis moving the tool through material.
No doubt things will change with different scenarios but the ratios will stay about the same. The original Woodworker will deflect more in the worst case. The analysis just lets us know that if you extend the 35 mm rails to get 48 inches of travel your deflection will increase by about a factor of 3. It’s up to the user to decide if they can live with the result.
Agreed. I was only interested in the numbers out of curiosity sake, not because I want to build a Franken-finity.
Since a 4x4 X-50 Journeyman is still a pipe dream I can’t wait on. I decided to move on with a different solution. I ordered a Rat Rig KillerBee CNC 1515 with Nema 23 Stepper Motors - High Torque. As my controller I’ll be using the Buildtronics controller which is the same one that OneFinity uses. It would have been nice if OneFinity didn’t limit parts purchase to only their OneFinity CNC owners. I’ll also be using a Makita (model RT0701C) as my router. I have to wait 3 more weeks for delivery to east coast USA for my Rat Rig. I’ll post a build log and parts list once everything comes in.
Hey David,
it’s not the same controller, the Onefinity CNC Controller is a fork of both the hardware and the software of a previous version of the Buildbotics Controller. Some Onefinity Controller users still wait for new features found on the (further improved) Buildbotics Controller (e.g. here, here) to be implemented into the Onefinity Controller.
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Hi Aiph5u,
Thanks for the correction. It’s the Builbotics controller and not Buildtronics that the OneFinity controller was modeled after and the one I’ll be using. And Buildbotics seems to update their software more frequently than OneFinity does. Either way, it’s a decent platform and the core of how well these CNC’s run.
Can I ask why 4x4’ is that much more important than the current 32x48" bed, is it a specific task you complete?
My projects begin from stock 4x8 sheets of material. The majority are 4x4 with the occasional full 4x8 sheets which I will tile to complete. My budget to get my foot in the door with CNC is $3000. My planned setup is already meeting this goal. MGN15 Linear Rails, high torque stepper motors, Makita router, 1515 cutting area, Buildbotics controller with 15" touch screen are some of the main features I will be getting.
Hey David,
the Onefinity Journeyman has the opening on its 4′ side, so you could tile any 4′ wide sheet with it – you could at same time hope that the Y upgrade to 48″/4′ will be there one day. The X upgrade to 48″/4′ was also hoped for a long time, and then suddenly it was there.
I also find it sad that there’s still no 48″ Y-50 mm rails kit offered which would enable to assemble a 4′×4′ machine, but since it would be made of parts that already exist today at the manufacturer, I would not exclude that they are offered one day. It is a feature requested frequently (however never commented by the manufacturer, as far as I remember).
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Hey David,
I understand very well that one has budgetary limits but one also has requirements for what one wants to accomplish. The Ratrig machine may be cheaper than the Onefinity depending on configuration, but you get less for it. It uses lead screws and not ball screws. I would not choose such a machine just for the 4′×4′ workarea (instead of the 4′×2.7′ workarea of Onefinity Journeyman) especially not if there is hope that there will be 4′ Y on Onefinity sooner or later. I also agree to what Bill said here.
The Journeyman stepper is NEMA 23 and high torque in stock configuration. And even retrofitting bigger steppers is not expensive because these are all open-loop (“step-and-pray”).
Then obviously you really have to look at the money. This is the cheapest type of milling motor possible, a hand trim router which isn’t even allowed by its manufacturer for use in a stationary machine.
One advantage of the Ratrig, like the cnc-step High-Z, would be that they offer a 43 mm mount which opens access to a wide variety of single-phase, universal (non-VFD) professional milling motors like Kress, Suhner, Mafell, etc. This is something the Onefinity manufacturers don’t offer (who knows why). In contrast to your hand trim router like Makita RT0701C, such milling motors are allowed and made for permanent use in a CNC and they are delivered after run-in by manufacturer, like spindles are, but unlike spindles they don’t need a VFD and an electrician to install them.
If I hadn’t already had the Journeyman delivered, what I would have done in your place is to ask info@onefinitycnc.com directly if or when they will make a Y-50 48″ machine or upgrade available.
Regarding the Buildbotics Controller, besides improvements here and here, you have a nice display that shows relevant information e.g. it indicates the assigned IP address, and you have a 15-pin auxiliary port for the use of external motor driver modules which adds to versatility. The Buildbotics controller also looks good at the Onefinity 
.
Hi Aiph5u,
I don’t know if you have any experience in manufacturing but I think you’ve heard of the saying time is money. How long do you estimate it takes to loosen/unstick a material then realine said material and bit before you can continue cutting? Depending on the material and mounting this can take 2-5 min. Now multiply that by 10 pieces you have to make then by 30 pieces and that is if you have to move the stock just once. If you have to work on a full 8x4 sheet you now have to move the sheet 3-4 times on the X-50. Like I said before, I really like the Onefinity setup and hardware. I’ve been in the market for the last 8 mths asking and patiently waiting for any news out of Onefinity for a 4x4 option. I don’t have any doubt that one day they will make this option available but that day is not today. Today I am ready to buy, so I am forced to look at other options.
Ok so I love the Onefinity CNC’s machines but I need a 4x4 cutting area for my projects. Lets look at what they offer for a 4x4 … nothing. What’s their largest 48"x32". I can tile my work but do I really want the extra time and hassle of moving my stock after spending money on the machine? No. Where can I get a 4x4 machine for around 3k that can get me close to the machine I really want that does not yet exist. Thats where my months of looking at different solutions led me to a Rat Rig frame paired with the Buildbotics controller. I originally wanted to purchase a X50 and modify the Y rails to 50mm or purchase two X50 Journeyman rails to use on the Y axis. I asked Onefinity and the short answer was no. It also would not have met my budget criteria. Only Onfinity uses 50mm and 35mm tubes with ball bearings for their rails so what is the next best thing? Extruded aluminum and Linear Rails. Also solid steel end plates will help with sturdiness and make the frame more rigid. But like you mentioned Rat Rigs come with lead screws. What you don’t know is that there is a ball screws upgrade kit thats costs $355 shipped for them. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker to use the lead screws so I’ll complete the build with them and If I don’t like the speed I have the option to upgrade to the ball screws and still be within my budget.
On Onefinity’s homepage which router is featured on the X-50? Check the Inventables website as well, which router is featured with their X-Carve? Is that the Makita router I see? Still not convinced, well check the thousands of reviews from fellow CNC users on youtube and on forums. The Makita router is one of the best 65mm router to use to CNC when looking at performance vs value. This is why it’s my starting router that I can upgrade to a VFD spindle later on. There are 5 different mount diameters you can use as well as the direct bolt on square spindles you can use with the RatRig. So as it stands. I have a comparable solution with a 4x4 cutting area, all within my budget, that I can get in 4 weeks If I restarted my purchase today.
What are the chances the product engineers at 1F are reading this thread with a grin from ear to ear, resisting the urge to spill the beans… 
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Hey David,
$3,000 is of course a very limited budget. In fact, in the price range, I currently know nothing technically satisfying that would come into question. In my case, I didn’t start planning to buy a CNC until my available budget was a bit higher, simply because I didn’t want to spend my precious money on something I’m not convinced of, but above all I didn’t want to invest in something I can’t rely on for a professional application. That’s not the case with the Onefinity yet either (I first wanted to buy the Laguna iQ which is not satisfactory either), but with the Onefinity I know what I need to change and retrofit to it. I hadn’t seen this easily in any other machine in its (hobbyist) class. The Onefinity is a machine with some reliable aspects in parts and design to raise it to a level of professional usability and it is easy to alter and retrofit things. Also it lacks a machine base and a (serious) cable management, which is something I wanted to do on my own anyway. And then when the Onefinity Journeyman with 120 cm workarea width came out, the choice was even clearer.
But I know the situation that you first have to do with something not satisfactory, because the budget is limited, and only when you have earned a little and saved, you can buy something better. Often it can only go like this. So for the time being I could only afford the Mechatron HFS-8022-24-ER20 and will do with manual tool change for a while, and will only be able to buy the ATC-8022-30-HSK25 later, when I have some money coming in.
Just as someone could come up with the idea of first having to use a machine where the workpieces can only be processed in tiled form and a large machine only becomes affordable once a little production has taken place and more money has been earned with it.
It’s often a compromise, but I just wanted to point out that sometimes something can look like a compromise but end up being trouble. I assume you also plan on using the machine professionally. Are you sure you will have enough reliability in endurance and accuracy with the Ratrig? Nothing is more annoying when you already have paying and waiting customers and then your equipment is failing or not delivering the quality you need.
As for the hand trim router, sorry if I grin, well what can you say how chocolate tastes to someone who has never tasted chocolate. People don’t realize that the trim router is a limiting factor until they’ve used something real. There are reasons why you only find induction motors as milling motors in the industry.
Oh, I did not say that the Makita hand trim router is not a good hand trim router. Maybe it is a better hand trim router than some other hand trim router. What I say is, what has a hand trim router to do in a CNC (until the next time it burns out and the workshop down, as reported repeatedly) since it’s explicitly not made for continuous operation)? That’s all I said. A hand trim router is a cheap substitute for a milling motor for hobbyists, and it is offered by many hobbyist CNC machines manufacturers (you know some I mean) to allow for a low entry price which is important when addressing to hobbyists. And it’s clear that the entities you listed say that the hand trim router is great - but I wouldn’t be sure what qualifies that list of entities to be asked for advice. If you need a hand trim router, maybe the Makita is fine. I own a Makita power tool too by the way.
You have already placed an order for the RatRig? If so, then your report will certainly be welcome by many here.
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