I’m seeing some questions about the QCW and thought I would share my own experiences both on the QCW and on the frame, along with what I might do differently next time.
The QCW and Frame are constructed out of solid materials and I quite like both.
If doing it again, I would simply order the attach from below option as the PEM fasteners (think of these ase threaded nuts that are held into the frame like a rivet) used in the secure from above are ‘delicate’ and easily pushed out (you then have to use a nut from below which defeats the point)
The frame is built out of solid materials but needs modification. I assembled my frame and used the casters I linked to in a previous topic and found the assembly very wobbly. I initially thought that the rubber foot on the caster was the cause of the wobble, but it turns out it
s the frame. There is no diagonal bracing to prevent a shear movement either front to back, or side to side. I fixed the front to back motion by using VHB tape and some hefty cable ties between the cross member on the base of the frame and the upright legs. That totally fixed the front/back wobble but the side to side wobble was still there. I fixed that by adding two diagonal braces from the mounting bracket on the leg to one of the QCW attachment points. I just used 3/4" ‘L’ section of steel (Home Depot) at 1/8" inch thick and a 4 foot length (needs to be cut down a little).
The frame is now solid.
I also found that the power supply is slightly too large to fit in the location suggested by Onefinity. I had to sand down the sides of the attachment brackets in order for it to fit between the rails. The holes are in the correct location, there’s just too much material on the outside of the holes to allow it to sit without jamming.
The experience and the conclusions you made reaffirms for me the impression that buying the Fixed Stand Legs that attach directly to the QCW Frame instead of a real machine table is a very bad solution (and I think the same of Rolling Folding Stand). I think that if you want to use the QCW frame (which not everyone would want at this price), it works best when you can use the Any Surface Leveling System (now included with QCW frame), and you can’t do that with these legs. For this it needs a stable table, which I would recommend, and with this, the Any Surface Leveling System can easily and quickly eliminate any twist that may appear if e.g. your table has casters and is moved around on uneven ground. I have not the impression that these legs can replace a stable table, and removing twist (=ensuring the machine’s coplanarity) on possibly height-adjustable casters at the end of the legs doesn’t seem a comfortable way to achieve this.
The casters are not the issue. The issue is the frame
I took the frame off the casters (when I suspected they were the cause of the wobble) but that did not fix the issue
The issue is the design of the frame.
The Kreg table has the same issue unless plywood panels are installed on the rear and the sides
agreed. At least what in any case I expect is, neither the QCW Frame nor a Kreg table can prevent that they twist according to the surface you put them on. And a twisted machine can only produce twisted workpieces as result.
But I would not think that a table with diagonals, which of course is a much, much more stiffier and stable then, can prevent twisting according to the surface you put them on. The test is: Put a coin under one feet. If it is that stiff and stable as you think, the table should wobble then. But It won’t, because to have a machine base that really does not twist according to the uneven ground, it would need to be welded of half-inch thick steel profiles and annealed for stress relief like shown here. And even such machines have something like the Any Level Surfacing System, as you can see here on this heavy machine made of welded steel.
So if you have a twisted machine, it can only produce twisted workpieces as result, and removing twist (=ensuring coplanarity) is mandatory before starting to mill something. And I don’t want to do this crawling around on the floor on height-adjustable feet or casters, but standing upright, by adjusting the Any Surface Leveling System at the height of the frame.
The QCW is fine and is not twisted. It is the legs attached to it that create wobble. I tested the QCW for level/twist using fishing line and also tested with my rotary level, The QCW is spot-on. It’s just that the legs allow the entire assembly to move.
Because the table was coplanar when sitting on the wheels, all I did was place a piece of paper under the rubber foot and lowered each foot until it ‘caught’ the paper. Then I gave each foot 3 cranks beyond that (so that they were all bearing the same weight and the level was the same
regarding the price for the Foreman QCW legs ($580 - $450 = $130), and the additional work you put into it to make it wobble less, would you buy it again or better build or use a solid table with casters instead (not Kreg)?
Unless I was someone who did not have access to woodworking tools, I would not buy the legs again until they fix the design.
I would make a carcass from plywood along with a torsion box top.
The only caveat to that statement is that it took me time to work out what was wrong and what it took to fix it. If I went in to this again knowing that I needed to buy $30 of angle iron and a couple of brackets to fix it, maybe I would. It is FAST to assemble, certainly faster than prepping a carcass.
Thanks for the info! I ordered with the QCW and the legs as well and it just shipped.
I will go get those brackets and angle iron before it arrives so that I am ready when it gets here.
Based on what you are saying, I think long term I may build a tabletop and remove the QCW from the legs and put it on the tabletop…but that seems like a future problem.
I was not sure they would benefit so that was the temp fix. The ties work so well (along with the VHB tape that I used) that I saw no reason to drill (it’s not a beauty contest )
Hello Ed, I didn’t order the QCW, plan on ordering the Kreg 64x64. Thank you so much for all the info and how you corrected the wobble. This may be a dumb question, but will the use of brackets and angle iron probably take care of the wobble with Kreg as well? I will also be putting the plywood sides on as well as the back as well. Thanks again for the great information.
Yes but with the Kreg it would be easier just to put an entire plywood panel in one of your vertical openings on two sides (back and your least accessible side).
You could also make a plywood panel to fit and cut the middle out, it would still work well as a brace and you’d have access to the interior of the table (think large, square donut placed between the top and the shelf on 2-3 sides)
That way no need for steel diagonal or shelving brackets
I too bought the set up you have and noticed a wobble and wiggle as well. I tightened everything up and it seemed to help a lot but I still notice a wiggle when the machine makes quick small movements.
My Control box fit with no issue as you had
I love your corner bracket ideas and think if they were solidly attached to the frame sans zip ties they would definitely help and I will look into this so THANK YOU for the idea.
Some questions:
Where did you get casters?
How are they attached to frame?
Do you or anyone know what these are and where they go?
I know I have asked for the files many times on that thread. I even called PWN CNC and asked when they would roll them out. I am even willing to buy some….
You have provided me more information and help. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me and everyone else I see you helping.
Now I know what they are for I would say that those are quite a bright idea. That’s called looking out for the customer. I know it is just a piece of plastic and I will never use them since I have the stand but Onefinity I want to say kudos for looking out!!
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