Ok yes the does make since. And again I know its been discussed, however going back I was only mainly searching for recommend spindles other than the Haunyang being you guys are saying its not specifically a good choice and I do understand that I guess. I was going off what everyone who has had these has said about it.
And to answer that statement. Yes! I was running a 20amp circuit that would “only” run the spindle/ VFD and nothing else. I assumed that it would be fine but admittedly im not the most knowledgeable when it comes to circuits even tho most of the time I can get through ok.
So just to be clear though. Are you saying as well that the 2.2 110V spindle isn’t a good choice as well?
Sorry if im repeating what others have already asked.
I just said, I would avoid 110 V spindles (if stronger than 0.75 kW) and I linked to the exact explanations why, but rather choose one for 240 V. That’s all!
By the way, Onefinity does not recommmend ANY spindle or VFD. They always clearly state that it’s your risk. And if they would recommend to attach a HY02D211B 110 V 2.2 kW VFD to a circuit not sufficiently dimensionated, they would be liable for recommending to violate the safety regulations in your country. So I am very sure they don’t. As the input current and power draw is willingly omitted both in the VFD manual and on the nameplate, you can only ask someone who knows how a VFD internally works an how you can calculate these ratings, and that gives that a 30 A circuit as usual in a domestic 120 V context is clearly not enough. However with the same model in the 200 V class, you would be good with 24 A and a 30 A fuse.
Really late now
PS: Regarding the fact that many people simply don’t know what a 110 V VFD for 2.2 kW motor can draw because many people never put a mechanical load on their spindle that would cause any issue with the power draw even on too weak circuit, the other day I posted this test to drive your spindle to its limits. It’s fun but it can show how easy it is to get to the limit.
Not at all… I am a former electrician and would generally prefer balanced loads that run at 240v over 120v if possible keeping unbalanced load off the neutral but that is not a requirement. Same in commercial/industrial settings where 3 phase is available. If you’re following the strict letter of the NEC you’d likely need a 30A input to your VFD at 120v because it’s nameplate rating (right or wrong) will likely be more than 20A (probably around 24A based on what I’ve seen previous). This doesn’t mean it will use 24A, just that is what it was designed for as a max load. Running a 120v 2.2kw VFD on a 20A circuit runs the risk of tripping your over current device where as running it on a 20A 240v circuit wouldn’t have that concern. FWIW recent code changes including requirements for arc fault breakers also seem not to play well with VFD based devices like pool pumps and variable speed HVAC equipment.
Gotcha, ok so just to explain real quick. Plan was to run 20amp circuit to power cnc, and another for everything else, but your saying (sorry if im repeating myself ) to run a 10 gauge(30) amp circuit solely for the spindle all by itself? Which makes me question it then because then I would need to run a 220 outlet because a standard receptacle doesnt except 30amps but rather and lower amperage. Now again im “not” an electrician but this is also why im asking these questions.
So again going back to my previous question because it seems as this is going to be not a good option potentially based off the current setup im going to be running which is 20 amp circuit. Which spindle is a better option then? Thats if anyone can offer one that is.
30 A can not be enough, that’s why I still insist sometimes. Can calculate it for you but not today, Just think of that you have a single phase AC at input, that gets rectified and stored in capacitors, and then a microcontroller switches six IGBTs on and off to form three phases on three different wires at the same time of the max. current that the VFD is rated at output. If you look at the overlying waveforms of the three phases on three-phase electricity, it is clear that at the input, you will at least draw the double current at the input as what the VFD 3-phase rated output current is. And then you add the efficiency of the VFD itself and it gets even more. If you take the strongest motor that is rated for a 2.2 kW VFD which is usually 10 A on 200 V class and 20 A on 100 V class, and consider this with the induction motor formula you find here, it is clear that for a 2.2 kW motor you have more than 4.2 kVA input which at 120 V is already 34 A, and you also see the usual capacity ratings on 2.2 kW VFDs of 4.5 kVA in the manual, and then add the efficiency loss of the VFD itself, it is clear that you would recommend to connect a device of about 40 A max. input rating to a 120 V circuit, knowing that the maximum domestic 120 V circuits are only 30 A strong. An electrician can not do this! Or I need to revise my view about electricians.
I could also try to make it comprehensible in another way, for all who fear the formulae etc.: Here is a single-phase input VFD of the 200 V class for a 2.2 kW motor, it is able to deliver 12/11 A (depending on duty cycle) and at its input, it is rated 24/22 A. In the manual, the fuse recommendation is 30 A for this model.
The same model, if it existed, for 100 V class (they don’t make those), would be for max. 24/22 A spindles, and could be assumed to be rated the double then as 200 V class model, thus 48/44 A input current. And the recommended fuse even bigger.
Ok that does make since. And sorry if this is making you repeat your reply but want to MAKE SURE I completely understand your info.
And for the 110V im sticking with just because its quit costly having to switch to 30amp circuit and having use 220 plugs and so on (based off what little info I know about electrical that is).
Also based off what you said. The Makita router which Onefinity does suggest using with their machine runs off 120V 6.5 amps which is to “assumed” is going to push past the 0.75kW you were saying to avoid. Now assuming this is correct of course.
I did go back and read what PWN had to say about 2.2kW and that I guess makes since. So I suppose I will not purchase one of these spindles then as it seems to be or not to be the correct choice.
I’ll just keep looking and in the mean time if anyone has suggestions of spindles to look at I’ll take it. thanks
you can’t compare the power rating of the Makita router to the rated spindle power. If the Makita draws 6.5 A @ 120 V = 0.78 kVA, that is the electrical input power. According to IEC 60034-1, the rated output of a motor has to be the mechanical power available at the shaft, NOT the electrical power it draws. That current is higher. If you take the electrical power of the Makita router and take into account that a universal motor has an even worse efficiency compared to a spindle, you can expect that the mechanical power of the Makita is well below 0.5 kW. Unfortunately they don’t provide the data, they just mention the electrical input power Also the motor characteristic strongly differ between the two (as compared here), so the watts alone don’t really help.
So I guess this would be the only other question for you then.
Can you suggest a spindle based off info provided ?? Id really appreciate any recommendations! Of course ill do my best to research before purchasing.
Running a 20amp breaker, standard receptacle to match. Ive looked into the PWN spindles and “may” go that way even tho in my option its over priced, BUT they say they are “plug and play” ready to go, and do seem to be able to work on a standard 20amp circuit.
Trying to get this figured out so I can move forward. I appreciate all the input!! Thanks
I also have an HY 2.2kw spindle and bought these nuts off of ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/164090640143
They work just fine. That being said I need to get more as I thought having one collet of each size would be enough but I’m finding that I actually want 3 or 4 1/4" collets/ nuts to speed up switching bits. My spoilboard flattener is 12mm so the collect and a nut always stay on it in it’s case. As for the nuts, they feel like they ar good quality.
I don’t disagree with you but the label/manufacturer instructions are the law in North America regardless of the calculations unfortunately (in theory a licensed electrical engineer could tell you differently but they’re usually not going to unless they represent the manufacturer of the VFD). The other angle is that the input values are correct but the output values are not accurate.
Honestly I’ve tried finding something else in this forum but all anyone can suggest is a spindle that’s$1000 and that’s not including all accessories to go with it. I’m not spending that much when I haven’t even gotten the machine yet, it’s just not happening! Chinese or not I’ve heard from others who have made the exact spindle that I’m getting work and are running it on the same side circuit I will be so it should be ok….
I appreciate all the help guys it definitely helps! I haven’t bought the spindle yet so I’ll still be searching until I either just buy that one or another. Thanks!
we are still talking of the calculation of the (missing in manual and nameplate) maximum input current rating of this VFD and what to tell someone who wants to connect it, what circuit one would need. You have the specs of the three-phase output current it can deliver: 20 A 110 ±20% V 3~.
Anyone can verify by calculation, and especially if you are an electrician, you should be able to simply calculate what total currents are flowing in a three phase current of known current and voltage at any time. And if you have a device that draws this power from one single phase input, nobody can have a doubt on what I explained above. You don’t want to tell that if you know for sure a device is able to draw at least 40 A as maximum input current (and that it’s what should be in the manual and the nameplate), that it is correct to recommend to the people to connect it to a circuit that is too weak for this, just because the input rating is (willingly) not there? Sorry for the question, I only ask to be sure.
I always say, to connect a VFD, you need an electrician – I want to be sure that it is still a correct recommendation
What do you mean by this? Please could you explain what you mean.
Hey Sean, There are quite a few different options. Consensus seems to be that if you can make it work, 2.2kW spindle on 240v circuit is often your best bet. If not, maybe up to 1.5kW on 120v. All depends on what you want to do with your machine as well, of course.
As far as spindle and VFD brands go, there are many possibilities. Cheapish Chinese VFD/spindle such as Huanyang and many others. Good VFD (Hitachi/Omron/Delta, etc) with presumably better quality Chinese spindle like Jianken, or possibly G Penny and others, that comes straight from the factory. That’s what I did. Or, if you have the money and/or looking for more professional equipment, a good VFD with something like a Mechatron (Germany) or CNC Depot ATC (U.S.) spindle. Quite a bit of difference in risk/reward, quality, and cost.
PWNCNC is probably somewhere between cheapish and middle of the road, and also includes service and warranty I believe.
I don’t think I saw it mentioned in the post, so just in case you haven’t looked in to this, keep in mind that if you don’t buy something like the PWNCNC kit (or similar) with the premade cable from VFD to spindle, you’ll have to source the right shielded cable and do the somewhat tricky job of soldering the wires to the four cup connectors in the aviation connector that comes with the spindle. Often a proper shielded cable also does not easily fit in to the aviation connector to begin with.
You’ll get lots of opinions on this, so if you have the time, I’d recommend digging around the forum and maybe other CNC forums so you can form your own. Good luck!
I agree to Martin @MVall and would add that it is always the best to buy the spindle cable ready-to-use with the spindle from spindle manufacturer. Reputable spindle manufacturers always offer this.
PwnCNC is one of the rare dealers that offer a kit nearly ready to use and they also offer ready-to-use spindle cables separately for the chinese spindles that don’t offer a cable (but just a loose connector)
PS: The 0.75 kW limit for spindles that you would run on a 120 V circuit is not really the limit, it is just the strongest VFD what Hitachi offers for 120 V. The 100 V class WJ200-007M VFD for a spindle motor that delivers 0.75 kW mechanical power on its shaft is rated with 2.4 kVA capacity, which would mean 20 A input at single-phase 120 V, so to be within the 30 A circuit capability of the U.S. domestic 120 V circuits, an approx. 1.1 kW spindle with a VFD made for this spindle power would be the limit.
When you say you could calculate the input current you’re assuming the rated output wattage is accurate. Perhaps the reason the max input current nameplate value on a 120v 2.2kw VFD is 22A is that the output really isn’t 2.2kw and might only be 1.5kw making the input value correct in the calculation. 1.5kw output would still drive the 2.2kw spindle, just not to it’s full potential. We don’t know which value, input or output or neither is accurate