New tool setter arrived - test results - NEW VIDEO

A few days ago I finished testing the wiring of the tool setter, and I now have the sensor and over travel circuits fully connected within my enclosure. Happily everything worked as expected when I turned the power back on. The configuration of the auto tool zero routine was extremely easy with the Masso G3, and I now have some preliminary test results to share for those interested.

Jump to the two attached tables if you want the results without reading about the procedure



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My testing methodology was to keep the same tool in the router for all trials, and see what kind of repeatability was possible - my assumption was that the z axis tool offset variations recorded by the controller would be a measure of the tool setter’s repeatability.

I ran a small z axis backlash gcode routine prior to starting, and the dial indicator returned to zero in the 4 trials I performed.

The results of the two tests, A and B, are presented in two tables, see attached. Although I used 2 different v bits for each of the tests, the main difference between the two is that in test B I greatly reduced the Max Feed Rates and Accelerations of all 4 axes. The tool setting speed was kept at a very low 20mm/min.

I had recently lowered the Z axis mount for the recipe vcarves. This did not allow enough clearance for me to use my dial indicator to test how well the bit returns to zero on the work piece. I did a few ‘proper’ tool changes zroing onto a wooden block, and the ‘paper method’ showed each bit was zeroing on the work piece at the correct height. I would need to get a dial test indicator (finger dial) to truly know the precision - I may purchase one in the future.

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really interesting and great example to us all

can we see a video

Regards
Dave

I can certainly provide videos highlighting the functionality of the setup. Is there a particular process or component you are interested in seeing in action?

like to see the actuation, operation, how it interacts with the control and how automated is it?

Have you created a macro etc.

Regards
Dave

No macros needed, as I am using a Masso G3 controller - made setting up the auto tool change extremely easy. I will look to create some short videos in the next few days.

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I found this within an article on the CNC Cookbook site…helps put things in perspective as I go chasing zeros…which is in my nature to do…but totally unnecessary for most projects I will tackle:

Here are some rough guidelines where accuracy is concerned:

0.020”: Beginnings of “hobby class” machining accuracy. Cheap CNC Routers can do this.
0.010”: Most hobby work is doable except for engines and complex parts.
0.005”: Some engine work is now doable and parts are beginning to have a fairly finished appearance.
0.001”: You can build about any model engine or complex tool with the exception of turbines and other very high rpm close tolerance work. For me, this is an ideal target and I find I can hold work to 0.001” in my manual machine work if I’m careful and think about what I’m doing. You will probably have to do some careful adjustment on your Asian tools as well as have the right measuring instruments and good techniques to achieve this goal.
<0.001”: Now you are into the serious stuff. If you can tread in the tenths of a thousandth, you aren’t afraid of much. If your machines can do this reliably, they are well set up and in good condition.

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I am providing a video which shows the functioning of the tool setter, as well as the Masso G3 controller UI.
Please note the following (skip to video if you are not interested in set up details):

  1. I created a simple F360 file with 2 operations (adaptive clearing and trace) using 2 different tools
  2. I show a manual tool change (T3) just to highlight the operation and generate a Z offset to compare later
  3. I am using the ‘Parking Location’ as a quick imaginary stock X/Y zero location, and a quick MDI G0 z-30 as its Z zero (a probe or touch off block would normally be used)
  4. I have slowed my rapids/accelerations down for testing - they were working over twice as fast earlier
  5. The tool setter is at a fixed location of my choosing, and the tool change location I chose is 10 cm in front of it
  6. I set the tool setter routine to rapid down to within about 1 cm, and am using a very slow rate for touch-off - I will experiment to see how increasing this impacts repeatability and precision of tool changes
  7. I am not physically doing tool changes when prompted, I am leaving a steel blank in the collet as I am still collecting data on my new tool setter’s precision and repeatability. You can see this by comparing the Z offsets for T1-T3 at the end of the video - I am happy to see they are very close (0.00124mm, 0.0025mm, and a max of 0.00374mm - well within its 0.005mm spec)

Massso G3, Sprite 10 tool setter, auto tool zero function

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That looks pretty slick - the Masso interface is nice. This could be something I upgrade to - I have a desire to get a 4th rotary axis one day…

I am very happy with the Masso - it was an investment for sure - but it does all that I need it to easily. It will be equally easy for me to integrate a future ATC, and any components I would ever need with its ample number of assignable inputs and outputs. Support is great, and I like that they are continually upgrading its functionality.

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That’s a really nice setup, I think perhaps my next upgrade will be the Masso and a tool setter. I think there’s a company in the UK who are a distributor.

does the Masdso allow you to change the feed rates dynamically during a cut

Regards
Dave

The tool setter was from EMG Precision which are in UK.
With the new firmware, Masso allows feedrate override between 20-100%, and spindle RPM override from 10-150%. Several forum members have asked for increased FR override, but it has yet to be implemented. It is one of the features missing on Masso, that other controllers have.

does the Masso accommodate stall homing or do you have to add limit switches

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Limit switches. The software allows for auto squaring of Y and slaved B axes when proximity switches are used.

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Sorry TM, I don’t understand what that means, perhaps a better question would be what do you have to do to add the Masso control to your 1F.

Regards
Dave

There is a thread here about someone making a macro for the 1f controller to do this. Not sure if it will help.
Bit setter macro v2.0

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I wondered what physically you need to do to the machine to swop the control.

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You’ll need…
Masso controller and…
Drivers for stepper motors
Power supplies (PSUs) for stepper motors, and controller, sensors, etc
Proximity sensors for homing or limit switches
Cables for proximity sensors
Modify motor cables to connect with drivers
Wiring to connect Masso STEP/DIR axes outputs with drivers, PSUs to drivers and other components
Keyboard, mouse, VGA monitor

It is definitely an investment of time (research, build) and money.

You can see the enclosure I designed and built by searching “Masso G3 controller enclosure update”. I chose to build a more industrial version.
Jason Stewart is doing something similar with an Acorn controller - I would also check out his progress on 1F CNC Users Group FB page.

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Can you share some of the wiring and configuration with me? I am working on adapting a Tool Setter of my own and I’m curious to see how this system interfaces with the CNC.

Also curious if its looking for a specific signal or if the device is acting like a switch.

Here are the wiring diagrams for the tool setter. I have it wired to my Masso G3 tool setter input, and the over travel sensor I added to my overall Estop safety circuit. It is an optical trigger switch.

Sprite10 tool setter wiring (2).pdf (164.2 KB)

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