I did a simple moxon vise inset. Nothing fancy, but it clamps well and is “gnats a*s” accurate, which is sufficient for me, as opposed to molecular level tolerances. I use jointcam software. Can go 4" thick x 21" wide, 39" vertical and leave it open most of the time for what I do. A couple things as I look at my picture. I will never do another dovetail clamping surface out of MDF again. I may even go back to t-track and a setup like Josh’s which looks very nice, or as I progress will eventually get a larger machine with 1/2" tooling capability rather than continual upgrades. Not knocking 1F at all, its been a good machine and support is exceptional, but don’t care to get yet another rail upgrade, (original to journeyman to stiffy), Z20 slider, 80mm etc. to contend with the y axis lack of rigidity. I guess I’m outgrowing it. All said and done a few more bucks and could have an Avid or something similar. Please excuse the verbiage on the drawer front, My wife’s way of expressing her dislike for me emptying my pockets
on the kitchen counter. Yes, drawer pull will be finished. It was an afterthought.
I like the Moxon vise. Nicely implemented. As to your spoilboard, was it the dovetail clamping or the MDF that was the issue? or both?
The MDF was just too light weight for some of the clamping I prefer. Some high density would have been better. Also, the microjig dovetail clamps are decent, but any debris left in the tails inhibits sliding them as easily as the t-track stuff.
I purchased a sheet of Valchromat, of which I intend to use a portion for a wasteboard for precisely the reasons you mention.
Could you share a little more about the rigidity issues you have encountered? I have a friend who has an Avid 4x4. It is a really nice machine. It has a lot of really nice features but in my opinion one of the best is that it extends out in front of the bed and he has created a joinery fixture that simply clamps to the front of his table.
I am able to grab the top of the slider and push/pull slightly, enough that it is exaggerated at the tool. I really tightened up all the rails and mounts and that helped a bit, but there is still some give in the y axis. I may be over critical, but I find in some cutting that my tolerances are inconsistent, I assume, because of the density of some of the wood types or the sudden change in material with a backer board. As I’m sure you are aware, when cutting half blinds,.throughs or any other dovetail, tolerances play an important role and anything over the slightest glue line kinda bugs me. Don’t get me wrong, this machine can cut a cleaner dovetail using jointcam than I could ever do in my youth when eyes and hands were in good shape. Fwiw, I have the journeyman and a 65 spindle. That vachromat looks interesting. Curious how it works out for you.
Send some more pictures
I like the setup
I am so excited to get my elite foreman
Thanks
Hey Dan,
Tamar does a great job of explaining it all here: https://youtu.be/2QbDh76mzCg How you inset into your table is going to depend on your construction method for the table.
I will say that I used the 1F for the cutout so I could flush the face of the fixed back piece of the vice. I will make a second front piece of the vice with bushings to run the threaded rod through. Initially, I didn’t, because I do clamp some tapered pieces and the slots allowed that movement, but in retrospect, it also makes it more difficult to get repeatable fixed home starting positions that line up the edge of your workpiece against the vertical stop, which makes production a lot easier. The bushings will help with that, but an additional jig may get it much more repeatable. I’m sure there are many ways to get repeatable position at each clamping/ unclamping operation. Another change I will make with the new face clamp is to make it a bit taller. It’s 5" x 27" now and I’ll probably go 8" x 27" and put a horizontal slot in it that is just enough to get my fingers in so I can more easily hold the workpiece against the vertical fence when clamping as its problematic to reach inside the clamped area with thinner material and be assured its flush to the vertical stop.
I think I paid 40 some bucks for the vice parts and had the oak sitting around. Fired up the woodstove and tunes and a few hours later I was good to go.
Personally, I think you are really going to enjoy your new purchase. Like I said previously, I have no issue with the 1F. It has been a good product with great support for me
and I’m sure you will enjoy it! I come from a family of craftsmen and out of the 7 of us I’m in the backseat for sure and this machine has really challenged me to think and be creative.
There are certainly more professional ways to accomplish all this, but I am mostly old school techniques and I work with what I have. I enjoy piecing together others ideas and my own to get me where I want to be. There are some very talented and brilliant people on this forum that I very much enjoy learning from.
Lastly, another shout out to jointCAM software. Good price point and excellent support!
Enjoy!
Thanks! I will definitely look into this
I hear you and second you on JointCAM. Excellent piece of software.
I was thinking some more about what you said about flex in the Y-axis. I wonder if that could be addressed by replacing the Y-axis tubes with ones of the same O.D. but thicker walls. Anything, else would likely require a redesign to include adding a “stiffy” to the Y-axis like what Onefinity added to the X-axis. I am assuming that you have the Journeyman. If you are observing flex in the Journeyman, I can only assume that flex will be even more of an issue in the Foreman.
Hey Joe,
which part do you exactly mean, that you grab and push/pull? The Z assembly that is attached to X carriage?
Hey James
But are you sure that you really have flex in the tubes? They have 5 mm thick walls(!) and are made of hardened steel. Have you thought about play in the linear ball bearings instead?
I have to say that my issue could be a one off. I never noticed this prior to getting the x50 upgrade. In addition I added a spindle, prior to the upgrade, and set it fairly low in the mount to get the headroom for the motor. What bothers me is that it was suggested to me to get a stiffy on the x50 upgrade and the beefier slide to resolve what I was seeing. With that said I just kinda grew tired with the “upgrading” concept every time there seems to be a need for correcting a potential engineering shortfall. Again, I know that sounds critical. I am not slamming 1F. They have to deal with customer wants and there are a lot of them. Just seems like it all started as a somewhat hobby machine and it’s trying to be morphed into something else by demand. Cylindrical tubing and square tubing of the same proportion; cylindrical wins the rigidity test, however, square tubing three times the size of cylindrical, well, I think that speaks for itself, especially with 1/2" and up tool diameters. Don’t beat me up, just my take.
I really hope you don’t feel like you are being beaten up. That is not my intent. I really would like to help you solve this problem for a couple of reasons. I know how frustrating it is when something is just not working to your satisfaction especially when you are doing joinery. The second is that I am planning on buying a 4x4 CNC machine this year with a 1/2" spindle and it has to be able to do accurate joinery.
I have narrowed it down to two machines, the Elite Foreman or the Avid CNC Pro 4848. Besides, the lower cost, I really, really like Onefinity for a variety of reasons where I think they are just outstanding including the design philosophy, the integration of best-in-class technologies (Masso, closed loop steppers), an upgrade path, customer support, and the user community. It also doesn’t hurt that a friend of mine has an X-50 Journeyman and he is the reason I learned about Onefinity in the first place.
I am eagerly looking forward to hearing what other users have to say once the Elite Foreman starts landing on their doorsteps. I am especially interested in hearing what they have to say about rigidity and accuracy as this will be a significant step up in size for Onefinity and if there are flex issues they will become very apparent in the larger size.
I think it is great that Onefinity offers an upgrade path but it also sounds like there may be pitfalls if all of the components are not upgraded. I would rather be able to upgrade a machine than not but it is helpful to know that doing so may introduce new problems. Trying to isolate those problems can be very frustrating as I would feel like I am being nickeled and dimed with additional incremental costs not to mention the time and effort required to troubleshoot the issues. As I have perused the various forums over the last 6 months, the one theme I see over and over again is users modding their machines to be more rigid and accurate and then selling them to buy something else that is more rigid because they couldn’t upgrade their machine to the level necessary.
However, if you are able to solve your flex problems, I would feel much more comfortable moving forward with a Onefinity machine. I do not want to buy a new machine and shortly after regret it thinking I should have spent a few more dollars and bought the Avid.
Understood completely. The “beaten up” was for anyone that may be lurking in disagreement and not understanding that it was just my experience. The elite with a stiffy, no epstein pun there, I am sure will be a great machine. I am no expert. I would love to hear from others that may have experienced like situations as well. Enjoy!
I started a project that is going to need a lot of dovetail and mortise and tenon joints - so what better time to finally get on the vertical table train.
a couple things i wanted out of mine.
- set angles to lock material in quickly and accurately
- multiple vertical positioning to batch out several boards in one go
- multiple clamping methods to give the most flexibility (t-tracks aren’t in yet)
- easily take in and out due to my flip top table and utilize hold down methods on the existing table to lock the vertical table in place.
overall i am really happy with how it turned out. i made the MDF face as a test, but it turned out so well i may just keep it - i was planning on building it out of baltic birch as i typically do with all my jigs, but this works really well.
designed in Fusion 360
each angle is at 5 degrees from 0 to 60 as well as a 22.5 - seen some really good examples of this i liked - Jays for the most part.
dogs are 20mm and I can’t tell you how satisfying it is at the precision in which these slide in and out.
used the table to cut out the legs on the side. short video of how well it works
Would you be willing to share the fusion 360 files for it? Would love to build something similar.
@RockingMallet
sweet vertical table, we use ours for tenons, box joints and even for drilling dowel holes for glue up panels.
On thing that is really cool that we can use toggle clamps for work holding with no fear of tool path hits.
thanks. I love it. been used for mostly dovetails and tenons for me, but have some template joints i am working on in fusion i want to try out. did one for the dovetails that works great and used it on this dresser i made recently
joints were damn near perfect.
never posted a final of what it is, but not much different than above.
the file is kind of a mess last time i looked as i was in a hurry to get one made so i could work on a dresser with it and was under a time crunch. let me see if i can find a good copy. may get a cleaned up version and post on my etsy when i get time as well that is more refined and parametric to customize.
will message you if i find one that is respectable or happy to shoot you how it is now and let you figure it out 