Vertical table for joinery

Has anyone incorporated a vertical clamping surface for mortice and tenon joinery?

Just came to the forums to ask the same exact question. Was thinking about trying to do a small scale version of Jaybates’ vertical table

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Just so. It seems easily accomplished as long as you stay within the limitations along the y axis

This was my solution - still need to put together the “vertical” piece to hold boards. I can replace the cut-out piece, have it rest on something solid, to ensure I’m 100% back to flat when I’m not doing vertical work.

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Looks great Mike. Interested to see the follow up!

Nice solid looking table Mike. What are your outside dimensions and by chance are you considering making an enclosure over it?

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The top is 49x60, kept the MDF full size in one direction to avoid 1 cut…

I’m not planning on an enclosure, but one would certainly fit on this.

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Awesome, thanks for getting back so quick. I now have a plan!

Hi. Do you have any update or things that you would do differently if you had to do it again? I’m about to start building my table and I definitely want to incorporate a vertical joinery option. Thanks.

The key is to have something repeatable and easy to set up so you can get things squared up and ready to cut. Allowing space for holding things vertically also means you lose out on storage space under the table.

I also learned to make sure my CAM plan references everything from the same side. So if you’re cutting dovetails for drawers, for example, always measure zero from either the top or bottom of the box - don’t rely on being able to have some cuts measure from the bottom and others from the top - a very slight error in the width of the board gets multiplied by 2 when you flip it over. It’s extra work setting up the cuts, but much more accurate.

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Yes, I know 4x4 is overkill, but I had a bunch of this left over from my outdoor kitchen build so why not? as you can see in the center (sort of), are two acme 5/8 x8 screws for my moxon type vice for vertical holding as i plan to do lots of drawers both dovetails and finger joints. The vice will be there permanently, and a removable table and spoil board insert will cover it. In fact, the vice is designed to actually hold the insert in. I have the handles coming Saturday. i will post many more pictures with links in the days to come but i couldn’t resist posting this now. I am about ready to order my journeyman… probably Monday.

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Jul '22

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](My table with vertical holding - #31 by HardtailSr)

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

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Jul '22

ok I couldn’t help myself I am now officialy a onefinity customer. Order #30641. I best get studying that damned software. i ordered the vcarve pro and the journeyman. got a bigger monitor third party, the probe (no aliens involved) along with some goodies from that rowdy roman guy.and a few things frrom amazon.

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Aiph5u

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Jul '22

Hey RoberT :slight_smile:,

now this looks nice. I have some 4"x4" (10 x 10 cm) here too and was thinking about to use it for a Onefinity table, but I will wait until I have moved to where I can weld one from steel profiles that allows for more 3D space between the rails for a rotary axis.

Instead of screws for moxon vises ¹ you could also directly use screws for german/scandinavian front vises², e.g. like shown here: Bench screw for German and Scandinavian L-shaped front vices . They have a part that attaches very simply to a wooden jaw.


1: Double-screw vise , in: Moxon, Joseph: Mechanick Exercises or the Doctrine of Handy-Works. London (1703 edition)
2. German/Scandinavian (L-shaped) Front Vise: Example 1 , Example 2 , Example 3

I think you will not be disappointed, neither with the machine nor with the software :slight_smile:

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

the nice part of this particular design is that the screws stay in place they do not stick out when unclamped only the front jaw moves back and forth

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Aiph5u

Jul '22

Hey Robert,

I understand. Will be happy to see the further completion stages if you post them!

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

I am making progress every day

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WaywardWoodworkerDerek LokeeToday is the anniversary of the day I joined this community!

Jul '22

It looks nice, one suggestion I’ll make is to give yourself some material on the fixed side of the clamping fixture that you can machine parallel with the Onefinity once it’s mounted to correct any out of parallel/square that might exist in the table. If I build another table I’d change my clamping fixture to be parallel to the Y axis instead of the X axis as I’ve had 2 occasions where the operator didn’t ensure the X axis was squared before running through 100 bd ft of lumber… a not parallel axis turns out wonky drawers :wink:

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

understood. this thing is as square and level as I can make it and the vice fixture itself will be aligned with the top as well. but thank you for remining me to pay attention to those details. I straightened and squared up each piece to all the same dimensions before assembly. When I put the level on it every piece touched with no gaps and was perfectly level. I had clamped each piece in before securing them.

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ONTBMuddlin’ Max

HardtailSr

Jul '22

You should get your license right away. If you search YouTube for Vcarve you’ll find many hours worth of tutorials and examples. They are extremely helpful and will give you an idea how to tackle about any project

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

well, I only ordered it this afternoon so I will be checking on it tomorrow, and the day after that, and the day after that, and…

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

got my license today and did the download thing.

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

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Jul '22

i said before i am making progress every day but today it feels like i am in a olding pattern one tiny part is preventing me from going forward on the vice or to be more technical my vertical holding device lol. 10 mm double split ring clamp. well it should be here wednesday so two more days. did my lathe work on the “moxon” modified screws. shown below.

I got the handles in, and the screw parts done on the lathe. I’m just waiting on the darned clamps then i can install the moving jaw as shown in the second picture then on with the top. and then wait for the journeyman to arrive.

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

Here are a few more pics of the new vice and 90 degree holding /backer board I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have. and yes, this is square to the top and will be square to the machine
(journeyman) when I install it. it is also dead level you can see in one of these pics the fence on the left-hand side to orient the boards for vertical holding

Oh and i put a little dust groove in that fence as well. it is in the last pic.

thanks for all the encouragement i have gotten here I am looking forward to bugging all of you as i screw up after i get my machine. LOL

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Aiph5u

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Jul '22

Hey Robert,

this looks very nice.

The dust groove is a plus.

Would you share the source for the screws and the handles and how you modified them?

I have another question: On the frame, did you do mortise and tenon joints there, or are the 4x4s just cutting edge to side, and bolted through? I mean the cross pieces. I see you have joints at the corners.

How did you attach the feet to the bottom and top frames?

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jul '22

ok feet first they are bolted through top and bottom with 6 inch Timber lock style screws I only did half lap joints on the top corners the rest were timber lock screws, two, so they wont twist. (yes I got lazy) but the whole thing is very square flush and level. I got the handles on amazon

Handwheel

Visit the Othmro Store

$13.28 for two.
i used acme thread 5/8-8 i got six feet of it for about Threaded Rod, Low Carbon Steel, 5/8-8x6 ft
thirty bucks.

Brand: GRAINGER APPROVED

I used 8 quarter rock maple for the movable jaw and then laminated a piece maple onto that jaw so that it missed the fence on the mounting board. I plan to add t tracks to that board. then reinstall it to the frame as it is now. When I finish mounting the top you will not even know it has vertical holding. This table is turning out to cost plenty. I got 2 sheets of 3/4" MDF today at sixty-one bucks each and a sheet of haff inch plywood for the bottom shelf and that was 35 bucks, so even though I had most of the 4x4’s left over from another project I will still end up spending a bundle on the raw table, not to mention all the accessories and upgrades with the machine and dust collection. Turns out that the machine itself is only about half what you are going to spend on CNC.

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ONTBMuddlin’ Max

Jul '22

You are right about the Money. My Journeyman was $5000 as ordered with the over/ under and all accessories. I then have added dust collection system, more bits, table components, router and a whole bunch of miscellaneous stuff. Probably got $7000 invested and haven’t cut my first project yet. Based on the mdf dust going to have to buy a hepa filter system also.

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21 days later

HardtailSrrobert mainville

HardtailSr

Aug '22

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4 months later

Wes_Jac_79Wes

Dec '22

Any new pictures? Im thinking about a verticle wasteboard setup for the Foreman and would like to hear if you have finished and if theres changes youd recommend.

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Dec '22

no new pics yet but I would not change anything.

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Wes_Jac_79

Jan 2

you know i never realized that i have not posted pictures of the completed table thanks for the reminder. I will be posting those pics and some projects today as well.

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jan 2

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jan 2

first sale ever 50 of these

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jan 2

ok this is a shot of my nested jig for the hold down I made for myself there are four hold downs for the “nest” and two to hold down the hold down being machined

here you can see the underside of the hold down after it has been machined you will notice the three facets of sorts so you can angle them to your work. after this your simply flip the hold down over and mill the two slots and you have a completed hold down

this one is kind of fun because I have my own code / shorthand for the bits. I wondered if anyone can read what i am saying here lol probably not since i am kind of weird. each “BIT BLOCK” have however many bit i keep of that kind, for example i keep five of these so when i get down to two left through wear or breakage i order the five pack again. and the vcarved label lets me know right away what I am seeing. each groove has two magnets underneath each one so the bits do not fall or clink together and since they are separate blocks, I can rearrange them in the drawer which make it handy to the task at hand and very rearrangeable

these little Christmas tree candy dishes made great girts throw in some mini-M&Ms and viola

I mde this for a person that just had a baby she loved it.

more hold downs and some in use. It seems I have only made small projects, so I have plently of room for multiples

this is my newest baby this band saw has been great It seems I had to buy it because i could not get 3/8 oak that i needed for those darned coasters and my old bandsaw that you can see in the background simply did not have the power to cut 6inch wide lumber into re-sawn lumber i just had to spend a few dollars so now i can lol

ok that is my new year’s marathon of posting and the final pics of my vertical holding table with no vertical holding actually going on.

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Aiph5u

Jan 2

Hey Robert,

lol :slight_smile:

That’s what I like the most on your table – your vise! Its concept, and the implementation.

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jan 2

thank you now that the holidays are over i will be actually using the vicec tosee if it works as i wanted it to

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pwpacpPhil

HardtailSr

Jan 2

I’m thinking of taking the plunge by adding vertical hold to my table and yours gives me lots to consider.
Not intending to hijack the tread but I too picked up the Rikon 14" and love it save two exceptions.
My shop floor is hardwood and the Rikon wheels cut grooves in it when moving around so I opted for a Shop Fox portable set instead…big improvement and was cheaper than the Rikon wheel kit.
Secondly was dust collection, so I added dust extraction using 3/4" PVC pipe under the table insert. Seems to work pretty good so far.

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HardtailSrrobert mainville

Jan 2

i did not use the rikon set either i used simple silicon double brake wheels stem casters i added hexagonal connecters and hex bolt from the top of the apron and now is glideds when i want it to and stays put when i dont
and yes it was much cheaper.

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pwpacpPhil

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Jan 3

Is there anything in anyone’s recollection where using a 1F with vertical clamping provides less functionality than a Pantorouter or Multi router? About the only limitation I can come up with is the possibility of limited material length due to table height on the 1F. I’m intrigued by the convenience of those two machines but it would seem the 1F should be more flexible all be it requiring more up front design with software. Putting a tracer template in is pretty simple but so can CNC software once it is mastered.

I also dread having another machine taking up shop space if the same results can be obtained with an existing tool. Much less the added requirement to store specialized templates for dedicated machines.

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PezWoodworksPat

Jan 3

Pretty hard to beat the Pantorouter for M&T and box joints, very fast and accurate

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11 days later

HardtailSrrobert mainville

26d

yes, but the price and footprint yikes! I do not have room for even one more piece of equipment in my shop that is why even though I will upgrade to the elite series i will stay with my journeyman sized machine.

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Hey Robert,

no need to replicate your entire thread here again!! There was already the link invented:

My table with vertical holding – By HardtailSr

You may also use the discourse.org forum’s automatic box link creation functionality (also a kind of inline link) (unfolds when clicking on the icon on the top right):

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thanks for the information.