Spindles - Lingering Questions

I don’t know the manufacturer - I’m assuming it’s made in China somewhere. I mainly chose it because it was air-cooled.

I would send a message to Layne on Facebook to see if he’s still offering to set up (wire and program the VFD) systems. Feedback has been that he does a great job. Not sure if he sets up the Hitachi though - most folks have the HY VFD.

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Jim:
When I purchased my onefinity I was not happy with the thought of using the Makita router as it limited one to using bits with a 1/4" shank. Fortunately before my machine arrived they came out with the 80mm spindle holder. After doing a lot of research I purchased a G-Penny 2.2kw spindle from Ali-Express. When looking at the spindle on Ali-Express the only Id on the spindle is BST2.2-80-24K. On e of the reasons for going witrh this sapindle

To continue one of the reasons I chose this spindle was the fact that the ground pin on the spindle was actually hooked up so that it worked. Most of the Chinese spindle do not use this feature. This spindle also gives you the opportunity to go with ceramic bearings. Possible the only drawback for some is the fact that everything including the water pump is 220v. Forgot to mention this is a water cooled spindle. I am not a heavy user of this machine but I have found this spindle to be super quiet and runs super cool. Probably the longest I have run the machine is 1.5 hrs. Hope this might give you a little bit more information.

Hey Jim, hey all,

Unfortunately, my initial budget for my current project was not sufficient for the automatic tool changer from the beginning, but I was able to buy everything else in good quality. Because I consider the ATC to be necessary for serious professional work, I will have to start up the system first and buy the ATC later.

When converting to ATC, there is the option of retrofitting an existing spindle with a Tool Change Adapter, but as can be seen here or here, this probably requires a second bracket for reasons of stability, and unlike many semiprofessional and industrial-grade CNC machines, the Onefinity does not have a large mounting plate for spindle holders, just a single 65 mm and a single 80 mm spindle holder. That was discussed here the other day: One possibility to support such a retrofit ATC Adapter would be to mount two 80 mm mounts on top of each other, but then you would lose a bit of Z Travel.

That’s why I think, instead of retrofitting an ATC Adapter, I will later buy the ATC-8022-30-HSK25 spindle with HSK (DIN 69893) Tool Changer instead of ISO 7388 Tool Changer. This 2.2 kW 80 mm 30000 RPM ATC spindle can also be seen here in this unboxing video. One reason to buy an ATC spindle straight away is that compared to a separate ATC adapter that is subsequently added, you only have to pay once for the bottom ball bearings. The most stressed ball bearings are always located at the bottom, where the axle exits, and they often are more expensive angular contact ball bearings in order to absorb both radial and axial forces, and of course a separate ATC Adapter has its own bearings, but you’ve already paid for a pair of them located in the bottom of your spindle, which would then slide upwards when you mount the ATC at the bottom, where they are of less necessity.

Also if you buy an ATC spindle straight away, then the ATC mechanism is not at the bottom but at the rear, and one single bracket like on the Onefinity would be enough to hold it, the whole thing is shorter than as the two as separate things, and you only pay once for the good ball bearings.

I did not see any spindles for manual tool change in their web shop. But I did not buy anything at CNC Depot in Tennesse, it was Bob who posted the link.

I try to buy things locally because of shipping costs:

What I meant by the price hike was about the spindle, cooling unit, the VFD and other things that I bought:

I bought the Mechatron HFS-8022-24-ER20 earlier this year for 899,00 € (approx. $1058.35) but now the price is 970,92 € (approx $1120.98),

the Mechatron Cooling Station KG5000 I bought earlier this year for 771,12 € (approx. $907.80) but now the price is 832,81 € (approx. $961.52)

the Omron 3G3MX2-AB022-E bought earlier this year for 357,00 € (approx. $420.28), but this one did not change its price, but it’s not available now at the moment in the shop where we bought it.

Also the Phoenix M17 Connector for the spindle changed from 29,04 € to 31,90 €.

Many things have become more expensive during the last two years and many are not available, I assume on the one hand because for the suppliers the costs for international transport have exploded (up to 1200%) and on the other hand because many goods are difficult to obtain, e.g. computer chips. So I’m lucky that I bought my stuff already.

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Just my fyi. i have HY spindles on all my machines. had a 1.5kw 220 65mm air cooled on my onefinity and now upgraded to 2.2kw 220 80mm. have that same spindle on my cnc4newbie. i’ve had water cooled on other machines and liked them as well. quieter below about 16k, gets pretty loud above that.

that said, i’ve got over 550 hours on both cnc4newbie and onefinity. about 450 of that on 1.5 spindle, rest on 2.2. no issues, runs great, love the setup.

148 for 2.2 air cooled spindle

I bought my vfd on amazon. Hy 2.2 for about 138

I’ve used the S30 cncdepot package for avid, ATC and it is a great package. comes with wriing, box and all for about 5000.

that said, i’ll stay with my setup until i upgrade cnc machines to a full size 4x8 or 5x10 setup for cabinets.

give me a shout if you have any questions. Hardest thing about the round 80mm on onefinity is lack of room for dust shoe. using pwncnc v7 with 4" right now. nothing else fits.

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Wow. Thanks Layne. Two quick questions? On your 1.5, did you have any difficulty with fit on the Onefinity Z setup? Some have pointed out that height of the spindle can pose problems. One the 80mm option, this is the first I’ve heard of dust shoe issues. Any thoughts on pwncnc V8 made for the Onefinity?

Jim

It is a bit taller and you have to watch it as it will hit if you are not careful. i didn’t have trouble past that.

on the 80mm, the back side is so tight, it limits. i use the v7, and it is good. not seen the v8 yet. it does not fit my layout quite as well. i may ask them to do testing on it.

i use a jet with 6 in mains and 4 in drops ot a jet cyclone 2hp. that big of a machine is more work to get the hose right, and supported.

Much talk of various spindles in this thread so I want to toss this in and ask if anyone has any knowledge of this spindle made by Hammer. The big advantage of it is the tool-free quick change collet built into the spindle. Watch in this video by Marius Hornberger on YT where he shows how it in operation.

You’ll also see how he measures the spindle to check for perpendicularity with the work surface and makes corrections.

You might also be interested in his recent dust boot build video which uses the 4th axis to automate dust boot elevation.

Further research turned up this spindle is made by Mafell. Model FM 1000 PV-WS.
https://fm.mafell.de/en/

Hey Bob, hey Jim @Webb , hey all,

I already mentioned the link to the Mafell FM above with the hint that’s not a spindle but a milling motor, i.e. not an 3-phase Asynchronous (brushless) Motor but a Universal motor with carbon-brush commutators. As @ben pointed out here, it is available only for a 43 mm Euro mount which the Onefinity does not offer, or with this tool changing mechanism that would require a custom Milling Motor Mount either.

Yes I know this Marius’ video, this is very cool, he builds it out of plywood, you got to see it:

Engineering an Automatic CNC Dust-Shoe

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Hey Layne, hey Jim, hey all,

You mean that after mounting the 65 mm spindle you were not able to let the machine drive to its uper Z limit?

The PWNCNC Dust Boot V7 that Layne is using is something very different than the PWNCNC Dust Boot V8. The V7 is clamped to the router/spindle with collars supporting router/spindle sizes of 65mm, 69mm and 80mm in diameter, whilst the V8 attaches to the Suckit Dust Boot arms with magnets and is especially designed for the Onefinity and only available through Onefinity. Also the V8 routes the dust hose around the back of the X Axis instead the front.

Yet I haven’t received my shipment containing both the Dust Boot V8 and the 80 mm mount, but with regard to its design and its construction, I see no problems on how the Dust Boot V8 could interfere with the 80 mm Spindle Mount.

I’ve 3D printed a dust shoe, modified from the Avid model they published. Originally was going to mill it out of HDPE, but the 3D prototype worked so well I just stayed with it. Here’s the Thingiverse link for the 80mm version: Onefinity 4-inch Dust Boot for 80mm spindle by gopher5 - Thingiverse. I also have it on Etsy if you don’t have a 3D printer handy.

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MikeH, Thanks, That is not too far from the version 7 pwncnc that i use now. i’ll have to try that.

Aiph5u, The V8 does now work for me without a rework of the layout of my 4" hose from the ceiling.
I might do that in the future. Right now, i’m having trouble with the boot going down far enough to cover the bit, but not run off the edge of the spindle. Same on my bigger cnc4newbie machine. Air cooled spindle i’m guessing does not have as much material on the 80mm part, so the bit sticking out is much more. makes for a messy shop.

Hey Layne,

well, I don’t have the parts there yet, but I find the design of the V8 very attractive, especially because it leads the hose around the back. But I first have to see whether it is good (= whether it extracts enough) before I can come to a judgment.

Yes, with the 4-inch hose, I’m not sure yet. I would like to dedicate a dust extraction system for the CNC alone, but I am not sure which hose diameter will be the right one for it. The CNC probably makes a little less chips than a thicknesser, but more than anything else, I think. When I have found out what I need through experiments, then I will print out something appropriate.

But V8 with a hose around the back, that would mean always being able to watch the work, which I find very attractive, especially if you still want to assess possible twisting of the machine (milling bit vs. spindle holder vs. Z slider vs. X axis).

This is due to the design. No objection to a dust boot that is attached to the spindle. But nobody says that the spindle clamp and the end of the dust hose have to be on the same geometric plane. Or that the end of the dust hose has to be horizontal. There are a lot of things that could be done when modeling in 3D.

This I didn’t understand. Maybe because I’m not a native english speaker?

EDIT: Ah! Do you mean this?

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Well, for what it’s worth, I went with sound advice gleaned from this thread and from others that cover the topic. HY 220V 2.2KW VFD and a 220V 1.5KW ER16 air cooled spindle from Data Automation. Though these are Chinese items, Data Automation is a US-based storefront and there is a one-year warranty.

Purchasing woodworking machinery made in Taiwan and Mainland China over the past decade has given me an appreciation for the high level of quality in much of what they produce. I’ve had a couple of whiffs over the years, but by and large the batting average has been pretty good. Let’s hope these items work as well as some of the others.

Of particular interest to me is the advertised runout on the spindle. .005, if accurate, puts this in the same neighborhood as the German superstars. Less runout = less vibration = less noise and better performance. We’ll see!

Anyway, a big “Thanks!” for all the help. Doubtless I’ll be back because I can’t get it hooked up right.

Jim

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Hi all. I am finding the spindle discussion here intriguing and helpful, but I’m still in a bit of a quandary and wondering if anyone can provide additional inputs?

I just ordered my OF Machinist X-35 this weekend. I like the smaller machine since I expect that I will mostly be working on soft metals like aluminum and some plastics, so smaller pieces.

As to the router/spindle, I am a bit uncertain. I could try the recommended Makita router, but I would like to use some larger shank cutters. For the work I expect, I do not expect to run the router wide open and I don’t know if it will work well at lower speeds.

I am currently leaning slightly towards the HY 2.2 kW water-cooled spindle mentioned in the OF 80mm mount description. Maybe it’s way overkill for me, but I want ER20 collet capability and water cooling seems like it has a better chance for cooling at lower speeds than air cooling, although I would certainly rather not mess with water cooling pumps and hoses.

Does this make sense and any thoughts?

For background, I am a novice to CNC. I do have some experience in metal & plastic machining & woodworking–all as an amateur, and I have a few metalworking machines that I’ve purchased over time and use for small projects and repairs when I can. I can see good advantage to having CNC capability available, but my overall budget is limited and the OF X-35 purchase along with bells and whistles is a significant expense for me. Choosing the right spindle seems important, though.

I’ve found the discussion on this site and especially the spindle topic helpful. I hope to participate and contribute for future discussions. Hope to hear from you. Thanks.

circuitbug

yes, that is correct. the bottom smaller than 80mm part is longer than my previous water cooled unit.

Layne

People have used the Makita router for aluminum - so it’s definitely possible. But your use case is a pretty good one for a spindle. The 80mm mount is required for spindles with an ER20 collet, which allows 1/2" bits. Not all 80mm spindles have ER20 collets - make sure you’re getting the right one.

But, you might be surprised at how well 1/4" bits work. For smaller parts especially, the need for larger bits isn’t that great. The final finish is slightly better with larger bits (less deflection), so it depends on what your projects look like.

If you are going to be primarily working with aluminum, you might want to look for a lower RPM spindle that has greater torque at lower speeds instead of the common 8k-24k RPM spindles. They are more expensive, however.

All of this gets into diminishing returns - the base system with the Makita works well. From there, you’re adding incremental benefits for increasing costs. So where you end up will depend on your budget and project needs.

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It would be possible to customize the design of the boot to extend the reach of the brush part. It was originally designed to be milled out of HDPE - but with 3d printing these, it would be pretty easy to increase the height of the piece that holds the brush.

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Hey Dave, hey all,

That makes perfectly sense to me. I went for 2.2 kW 80 mm ER20 spindle too.
Although bought for milling wood, I intend to machine metal with it and later dedicate a smaller machine for milling metal parts.

As you can see in the diagram on the bottom of the datasheets, this air-cooled and this water-cooled 2.2 kW 80 mm ER20 24,000 RPM spindles have a constant torque from 6,000 RPM on. Unfortunately I haven’t found such nice datasheets for the cheaper spindles Huanyang sells.

Considering the Huanyang Bundle you mentioned, which is for 110 Volts, you could inquire whether you can have 220 volts in your workshop and buy everything in 220 V, the spindle and the VFD. Assuming the same power (2.2 kW), 110 volts mean twice as much amperes as with 220 volts, which is why you would need a cable that is twice as strong for the spindle as you would with 220 Volts. That may play a role if you plan to use drag chains, because such a slim 3+1 × 1.5 mm² cable is of course thinner and more flexible.

Can you provide a link to the Data Automation site where you ordered the VFD and 1.5KW spindle from please. I have searched and not coming up with it.

Once I get comfortable with the machine I would like to get away from the noisy router and gain the ability to use 1/2" shank bits. But if a 2.2KW spindle is roughly equal to a 3HP router that seems like more power than the Onefinity needs. Is there a 1.5KW spindle with an ER20 collet available? I haven’t found one.