I’m getting close to a decision, but not yet an owner. I’m thinking about noise and realize a session can go for a long time. Can the machine be programmed (or allow a late decision) to stop, but restart a day later?
1 Like
The program can be paused, but the machine (not the router) must be left on for the ability to start again in the same spot. You might have small issues when pausing a 3D carve; a common issue is a small visible line where you paused the program. Turning the machine off with lose the set 0’s.
1 Like
Hey David,
if you buy a spindle and VFD, if you take care to buy an Omron MX2 (PDF Manual) or a Hitachi WJ200 (PDF Manual) (which are practically nearly identical), you can override the ModBus control by the CNC controller at any time by a switch wired to the VFD and pause the spindle after having paused your g-code program in the Onefinity Controller, e.g. over night, and switch your spindle back on prior to resuming your program next day. This is described here and here. Note that this does not work with cheap chinese VFDs! With these, you would have to run the spindle all night long / during the entire pause as you cannot override ModBus with them, nor can you switch the VFD off during pause, because when switching it back on, it would have no run / speed set prior to you resuming your g-code program (however unlike the hand trim router, a spindle is so silent that it would not be a problem with noise if it runs all night long with no mechanical load – just in case you want to use cheap chinese stuff)
Regarding pausing a g-code program, unfortunately, the Onefinity and the Buildbotics.com controllers can only finish executing the last command when paused, and can only execute the next command when resumed. Going back in the program after a pause and continuing at an earlier point, as with industrial CNCs, is not supported. However, you could do this with a partial G-code where you manually cut off the part at the front you want to omit.
Regarding noise, you know that a spindle is much, much less noisy than the hand trim router. Are you in an apartment house?
Welcome to the forum!
Thank you for the thorough answers!
We’re in a one-couple house, but the shop is directly beneath the bedroom. If mama ain’t happy, nobody’s happy.
I’m definitely interested in a spindle, and not just because of noise. Several folks have told me that a spindle will do a better job for my main CNC interest: machining clock dials in brass sheet. But I’ve also been told to start with a router, because there’s already so much to learn. I’m mindful that OneFinity doesn’t recommend (or support) a spindle.
Do you know of a complete ‘how-to’ for attaching a spindle to the machine? With so many sources offering a bit of info here and a bit there, a new guy gets confused. But maybe if I read through such a document, I’ll generate the courage to begin with a spindle from the get-go.
Hey David,
yes, a spindle is extremely more advantageous than a hand trim router because of the type of motor that a spindle is and because you don’t fear it burns your house down (see also here).
Most people here buy a cheap chinese spindle/VFD kit at a big webshop/marketplace (that once was a online bookstore founded by a guy who thinks he was in space, a web shop that is often in the news because of the way the employees are treated and paid and hindered to found a union), but if you ask me what I can recommend or what I bought, I would say a german spindle, with which there is one manufacturer that also addresses to hobbyists and consumers, which also offers complete kits consisting of e.g. HFS-8022-24-ER20 2.2 kW 24,000 rpm water-cooled spindle (datasheet) (I would recommend to buy the spindle cable manufactured ready-to-use with it), an Omron MX2 2.2 kW VFD and a cooling station, they even have an ebay shop, and regarding the VFD control cabinet, you can make your own or buy one ready-to-use.
They just don’t support it. This is mainly because a spindle/VFD is no out-of-the-box device. If you are a CNC manufacturer for hobbyists, you don’t have the resources to offer support for that. Generally, you need an electrician (an electrical engineer will also do) to wire such a spindle/VFD, however if you are confident to at least acquire the partial knowledge of an electrician needed for this, many people made it and are very happy with it. The forum contains some success reports.
Yes, I know, the information is spread around, yet here is no howto. But if you set a “@Aiph5u” in front of your search term, e.g. like this or this, you can see that I have already tried to give many hints and answer questions 
However in the manuals of good VFDs, there is everything necessary described for wiring and leading you to a first test run (see e.g. Omron MX2 User’s Manual or Hitachi WJ200 Instruction Manual). Unfortunately, as many have found out, the same cannot be said of the manuals of cheap chinese VFDs.
Mechatron (listed in a reply you linked this string to) appears to offer an integrated set including the spindle, inverter, cooling station and collets. I requested a quote (since I didn’t see prices).
Is an inverter synonymous with a VFD, or a separate component? The Omron appears to be just an inverter (VFD?). I assume the inverter translates my AC power to DC to run a spindle and adjusts power to alter speed?
- The power options (at 80 mm) are 1.5 and 2.2kW. What are the limitations of the lower wattage?
- Air cooling seems less risky (leaks, toxic ingredients). How big are the limitations (or cost difference) that keep liquid cooling among the choices?
Everyone cautions newcomers about Chinese spindles. I’ll steer clear of those.
Hey David,
it is a synonym.
With 1.5 kW, you seem to have only spindles with ER-16 collets at maximum. With 2.2 kW and ER-20 collets, you can use tool shanks of up to 13 mm or 1/2".
Also with a 65 mm mount, the spindle does not clear the stepper which means you have to slid the spindle far downwards into the mount, increasing leverage forces. To avoid, one should always better buy the optional 80 mm mount. But I assume you know that already.
I would say this is not really risky. Don’t know with cheap chinese spindles with their flimsy hose clamps if they become loose and spread the cooling liquid around, but on the Mechatron you have Festo QS8 tool-less hose clamps. Never heard of problems with them. All you have to do is remove this cap and fill the cooling liquid in.
Generally with watercooling the cooling is independent of spindle speed whereas with air cooling the fan sits on top of the spindle axis and rotates with the speed of the axis, i.e. slower at slower speeds. However this has not the same importance as with the hand trim router, since spindles have no carbon-brush commutators that produce sparks and additional heat, and the current is always controlled by the VFD. If you ask me, I would always use water cooling since it means reliable cooling in all situations (and that’s what I bought, I own the Mechatron spindle and their cooling station)
Besides that, it’s mainly whether you want to avoid having to deal with coolant hoses, e.g. Michael @MikeH shows a air-cooled spindle. Better ask Michael in matters of air-cooled spindle.
In both cases, you have to set the lower speed limit in the VFD according to the spindle manual, since the spindle manufacturers do not recommend to run the spindles lower than the lower speed rating. Often the lower limit is 6,000 rpm but with some cheap chinese spindles I have seen that air-cooled models must not run lower than 8,000 rpm.
I’m discussing spindles with Mechatron, who recommended the HFS-8022-24-ER16. I recall that you suggested an ER20, in order to accept 1/2 mill shanks. But 1/2" is 13 mm. Won’t the ER16 suffice?
I am sharing this because I believe it is related. I purchased a Jianken spindle and it only came with one ISO20 toolholder and it was for a an ER16 collet. I wanted larger tool holders for the larger diameter end mills, so purchased more ISO20 tool holders - but half ER 16 and half ER 20 (with various sized collets for each. One reason I got a mix is an advantage to the ER 16 tool holder is its smaller diameter allows for reach into tighter spaces, avoiding the need to purchase longer endmills which can be more expensive and add extra stress to the spindle. The smaller ISO20 ER 16 holders are often less expensive as well. HSK has advantages over ISO, but if you choose the latter remember to get both sets of wrenches.
Perhaps that is an option for you as well. However, you may have chosen HSK tool holders vs ISO from Mechatron, and perhaps they bundled a number of them for greater value.
2 Likes
Hey David,
This is very difficult to say, even for the manufacturer, since it depends on what you plan to do and which tools you want to use.
Generally the thicker the tool you use, the more force you can apply to the tool before it bends or vibrates, which translates to: the higher the speed with which you can remove material.
The Onefinity is a sturdy and rigid machine wich allows for high material removal rates. However most people here want to mill wood, where that matters. You said you want to machine clock dials in brass sheet. Is this rather fine work, how thick are they? What are the tools you intend to use? And the question is, do you want to exclusively machine brass sheets, or do you want to mill wood or other things too?
One thing that sometimes matters when milling metal where you want coolant to reach the endmill, is if your collet nut is very big and you use a very small endmill and you go into small pockets. Then the collet nut can be in the way, as this person describes with their ER32 collet. But they talk of a ER32 OD approx. 2" (50mm)(!) large collet nut. However the difference between ER16 OD approx. 1.25" (32 mm) and ER20 approx. 1.33" (34 mm) collet nuts is only slight. A difference would be there if you compare it to ER11 which is only approx. 3/4" (19mm) diameter. By the way, Mechatron offers a 80 mm ER11 model too.
Here a few things generally to consider:
-
ER16 collets can take tool shanks from 1-10 mm, which would mean up to three eights inch tool shanks, whereas ER20 collets can take tool shanks from 1-13 mm, which would mean up to half-inch tool shanks.
-
All tools that go into a ER16 collet can also go into a collet for ER20 receptacle, but not the opposite. However you have to judge yourself on whether you will use tool shanks larger than 3/8" / 10 mm.
-
Also one should take into consideration that when using tools with a larger shank, the thicker the shank, the stiffier the tool and so the longer the tools you can use – and thus the deeper the pockets you can mill into your workpiece.
-
We also asked Mechatron too what are differences between ER16 model and ER20 model, what they answered was:
The ER20 variant is somewhat stiffer, since larger bearings are installed.
Larger bearings means longer life and less heat.
A larger shaft diameter means more stiffness and more resistance against vibrations (chatter).
2 Likes
Your point about the ER20 working with larger shanks helps, thank you.
Although I want to mill brass sheet (0.04" thick), I’m a woodworker, and look forward to making some 3D pieces for furniture. It seems the brass calls for abilities that some woodworking CNC set-ups don’t have. I’d rather buy one very good tool than find out a bit more planning would have been more satisfactory. In my woodworking router, I always prefer a 1/2" shank over a 1/4".
I need to learn more about collets for spindles. I had been envisioning the collets used on a router, but a brief search for HSK showed a very different piece of hardware. Thank goodness for YouTube.
My collet nuts are the MS type, so there is a bigger difference in their size.
My ER 16 is 22 mm OD and the ER 20 is 28 mm.
Here is an example of the difference but for a different size:
1 Like
Hey David,
- NMTB Taper vs. HSK Taper
-
ISO-Steilkegel (
) vs. Hohlschaftkegel ()
Mechatron’s automatic tool change spindles offer both types here
Mechatron sent a proposal that included a spindle holder and an alternative. I had ordered a spindle holder from Onefinity with the machine, and I don’t know the compatibility of its mounting holes with those of the Mechatron options.
One of Mechatron’s holders (90 Eur) has mounting holes in a grid of 125 mm. The other (179 Eur) has “two bore holes…for dust extraction, etc.” I don’t see an advantage in buying their spindle holder, but while I’m finishing up the deal, I wanted to ask whether I’m overlooking anything.
Hey David,
It is not possible to attach third-party spindle holders to the Onefinity, you are forced to use their stock 65 mm or their optional spindle 80 mm mount, except if you replace the entire Z assembly:
No, I don’t plan to replace the Z assembly. I did order their 80 mm mount.
David,
I think you’re going to want to consider some sound proofing on the shop ceiling. I’m almost finished with our CNC closet in our garage and have gone through a lot of trouble to cut down on noise. I’ve had the “pleasure” of learning a lot about soundproofing for a project I did at a previous job where a client constructed a bowling alley next to a movie theater.
My route:
this was a storage closet in our garage that was in pretty bad shape (we bought the house to renovate as we live in it), so first I gutted the room. We’re going to wall mount our OneFinity, so I added Simpson Strongtie brackets at ever stud-to-base-plate and stud-to-top-plate connection and ceilng-joist-to-top-plate connection to add rigidity and cut down on vibration (no idea if it will actually help, but couldn’t hurt). I filled all cracks and gaps with expanding foam and spray foam insulated the underside of the roof deck. I then coated the studs and back side of the sheathing with liquid rubber, installed new rockwool insulation between the studs and between the ceiling joists, installed air barrier (plastic sheeting) over studs/joists and insulation (taping over all staples in plastic with sheathing tape), installed mass loaded vinyl over plastic (taping over all staples with vinyl tape), installed first layer of drywall, taped and mudded drywall, installed second layer of drywall with joints staggered from first layer with a layer of Green Glue between the layers, taped and mudded.
I could have gone one step further and installed the drywall on resilient channels, but I just didn’t have it in me.
I plan to add some acoustic panels and corner traps, eventually.
My closest neighbor’s bedroom is about 20’-0" to 25’-0" from my garage so I have to do everything I can to control the noise. I also don’t really want to draw any undue attention from tool thieves or busy bodies.
There’s a YT channel called Home RenoVision DIY that goes in to good detail on soundproofing spaces. Sound proofing is really a system of redundancies. You’re not going to solve it with one feature, and the more features/systems you install correctly the better your results will be, but the number one thing you have to do is control air movement. Sound travels through the air so even just sealing up any gaps and cracks will be a good first step.
Good luck!
1 Like
It is understood that the “zero” offset coordinates can be taken note of during set up ,and reestablished at any time later.