Ah… Thank you Mitz. The picture is clearing for me. 
Still getting my head around the terminology. So the Z20 refers to the "slider "and the mm sizes refer to the “mount”. So I could order the Elite Journeyman with the Z20 slider with a 80mm mount? I did send an email to 1F to ask if I could order the CNC with the Z20 as opposed to ordering the unit with a “standard slider” and then replacing it with the Z20 as an option. Bottom line is that I am trying to avoid doubling up on the Slider but maybe that is not possible. Great idea on the 3d shim. Is that something I could find on Etsy?
From their website: Limited Time Offer: For a limited time, all Elite Series models will be 15% off and will include a Z-20 (Heavy Duty Z-Slider)
Hey John
Yes, the shim is available from a couple of sites on Etsy. Here are a couple of links:
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Perfect! Thanks so much for this and your guidance. Greatly appreciated.
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I just ordered mine for the first one. I am a full time cnc programming and operator. I am going with the router first even though I know I will be upgrading to the spindle for sure. This way here I can learn all about the machine and not have to learn and wonder about the feed and speed. I looked at like this, one less thing to have trouble with when learning a new machine and you can always upgrade later. Hope that helped as it did for me when someone answered me that way too.
Thanks Steve, sounds like good advice for sure. I will definitely start with the router but will order the 80mm mount and use a 65mm adapter that are around $20 on Etsy. I appreciate the support.
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I am leaning on getting a milling motor they seem ideal as a step up from the makita router.
Had my Journeyman for 11 Months and have enjoyed it, however, I want The Elite Foreman badly. If I had a time machine!
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Exactly the feed back I am looking for. I imagine that the features of the feedback motors and adjusting the speeds on the fly and being able to restart easier are a big part but I wanted to ask you about the bed size. Do you find that you wish you had bigger than 32"x48"? If so for what type of projects? Very interested in any and all comments as I expect to pull the trigger and order at the end of the month and don’t want to under buy but also don’t want to over buy. I have been guilty of both in the past.
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Is it the noise level, run out, speed adjustability that makes you say this or are there some other factors for the spindle vs the router? Thanks in advance.
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on the recommendation of others here on the forum that i respect especially Profile - Aiph5u - Onefinity CNC Forum. who seems to have vast knowledge. where as mine is merely half vast.
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I have the 48x32 buildbotics, I really love sending code in via web page to the controller, super ez. The questions I’d ask if you need a tool changer ?or another axis -like rotation?
As far as spindle, 80mm for sure , use a sleeve with $100 router to start or add a vfd for around 350 when ready for it. I immediately ordered the 80mm upgrade - still waiting for it, and will most likely use a 220v vfd. The closed loop and masso is no doubt a step closer to a commercial build , speed, code adjustments etc are all things that you may want. If you’re making boxes or carving with 1-2 tools then the x50 is fine, if you’re gonna be doing more complex things with multiple tool changes then elite with atc for sure. That’s a lot of cnc for 4k, just make sure the material footprint is enough for your needs. I Haven’t checked status on atc but could be a long backorder. If the price difference is really not a big concern just go with the elite, if it’s an occasional hobby the network code sending is really nice to have so the x50 might be more appealing .
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Hey Gin that is great info. One question I have and can’t seem to find any comments on is the size of the bed. I notice in many of the videos on Youtube that most people seem to go for the 48x32 rather than the 48x48. I saw a video on the “tiling” feature in Vcarve that allows you to do a piece larger than the bed (x or y travel). For example its possible to do a 5’ x 3’ sign on a 48" x 432" machine. Also unless you are wall mounting your machine the shallower y axis of a 32" machine saves shop floor space compared to the 48". Myself I will likely opt for the QCW and folding rolling stand so that is not a big issue for me. I anticipate that most of my work will not exceed the 48"x32" bed. The only exception to that might be some restoration “Bargeboard” pieces that would be 6’x1’. So all this to ask your opinion on the 48"x32" vs the 48"x48" for the extra $325? Thoughts, comments?
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The 48x48 “Foreman” was just announced in November and has not been shipping to regular users yet. Not sure if any beta test users have them. So you’re not going to see a lot of YouTubers going with them since most are still using the original Woodworker and Journeyman which are 32" deep.
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Ideally get the biggest machine that works for your space, imho. That said if you’re only going to tile on occasion 32x48 should be fine. I have the 48x32 . I haven’t tried to tile a full sheet of plywood but that could be something important in the future so a 48x48 might be more practical if you think 1/2 or full sheets gonna be used more commonly . You can tile the 32 in 3 steps and 2 steps with the 48, if plywood is not really a thing for you then not a concern. I know at some point I’m gonna make some cabinets and the 32 will get small quick but it’s a compromise for garage space etc. I built a cart and it’s 6’x4’ which gives me a little extra room for accessories and stuff. For software I’m kinda widows paint guy anything past that is to hard. I started with carbide create ( free) to just get a feel for the machine , you’ll get some simple projects up and running fast , nice and simple. I then moved over to vcarve which is really amazing, tons of vids to get you started. I like the idea of buying the software and not renting it, It’s very reasonably priced imo. I started with the desktop which is like the pro version but work space of 24 x 24, along with a few other downgrades. I upgraded after a month to utilize the bed which I had no reservation. To backtrack a bit in about 30 minutes on the vcarve trial I was like this is it and bought the desktop. Get to know your vectors, lol. Also whatever vacuum setup you use it absolutely a must. Hope this helps.
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Wow! Great feed back, thanks! This definitely helps. I was wondering about the desktop version of Vcarve so your share on that really helps me. I too may want to do some cabinets so I am leaning strongly towards the Elite 48x48 (albeit it will be a while) and definitely will buy the Vcarve Pro version. I have several dust collection systems (run a four sided and a 20" planner) so should be able to adapt quickly and the cautions by others on the MDF are not lost on me. Now I just need to get up to speed (pardon the pun) on the bit speeds and feeds and what to expect in terms of life cycles. I will peruse the forum but if you have any pointers there I am all ears. Cheers.
@HardtailSr, that seems like a good option to me too? Are you aware of anyone that has used one with 1F? I’ve tried to research it but they seem difficult to source in the US and I’m not sure about mounting it.
One thing I never see anyone mention as a reason to go with the Elite (and therefore the Masso controller) is that the Buildbotics controller doesn’t actually properly support curves, it converts them to a bunch of straight line segments. I only discovered this by following the Onefinity Facebook group and seeing people having problems because of that “feature”. Honestly, for me that would probably be enough to justify going with the Masso; I want a controller that actually does what it’s supposed to…
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Some users don’t like that Masso runs exact stop and not constant velocity, but there are pros and cons to each. For the work I plan, I would rather it cut what I tell it to.
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Hey Timplett,
a thread that initiated that the other day here is this one:
Lets talk about ARCs and Circles (buildbotics controller)
But in the end, every arc or circle is converted to x,y coordinates by the CNC controller, a CNC works this way. Question is which algorithm it uses, not only to convert it into x,y positions, but also how fast and how fluid the movement is computed. I would not buy a CNC controller without having checked how well it performs the g-code instructions, not only mechanically but also mathematically. How does the Masso controller do it?
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