Another dust collection post

Hello,
As I am preparing for my first cnc arrival, I can not decide which way to go on dust collection.
In my current setup I run a pimped out HF dust collector. I have a super dust deputy that empties into a large sealed barrel. A Winn filter cartridge that also has an easily removeable 5 gallon bucket to empty residual. 4" pipe run to machines.
So, I can not decide what to do on the cnc. I am either going to purchase a Fein Turbo I and dust deputy for cnc. Or divert the HF dust collector to cnc and divert $$ to a larger system for main shop dust extraction.
I have read the posts saying reducing the 4" dust collector to 2.5" loses too much suction.
I have also read that long term running of the dust collection is better for the HF than the Fein.
I’m torn which way to go.

I would go fein turbo. I don’t want to power my large fist collector for 10 hour runs.

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I’m in similar boat, debating Fein Turbo (150ish CFM) vs a single stage dust collector (650ish CFM)?
I own both and can still return the DC, and it is shockingly loud.

Might seem obvious based on CFM, but like @Spes mentions I hear a lot about how much reduction limits the DC.

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I’m planning to pipe my HF system to my CNC enclosure via a 4” split into two 2.5” hoses; 1 for the Suckit and another to an open exhaust port. The idea is I won’t stress the blower with intake reduction and I get an extra fine dust vacuum to clear the enclosure. The extra port will also serve as a port to add a hose and clean up rouge chips/sawdust. That’s my theory, anyway. :smirk:

A question I forgot to ask…
If I went with the Fein Turbo + a dust deputy I have a few options for the dust deputy . I can use a 5 gallon plastic bucket. A 10 gallon metal bucket. Or a wall mounted large plastic bag.
So;to use round numbers, say I was running a 10 hour carve… would that fill the 5 gallon bucket? I like the wall unit but fear getting a repeatable tight seal on the bag.

I also was considering Roger’s plan on an additional port on dust collector to help system not to be starved for air. An additional blast gate on additional port would allow an adjustable amount of additional airflow.

In my opinion, a dust collector is far superior to a vacuum. Dust collectors are designed to run continuously for hours on end, and they capture more of the fine dust particles that are the worst for your health. But getting a 4" hose connected to the CNC, so you can get enough air moving, is a bit of a challenge. Squeezing the hose down to 2.5" to fit the dust boot is a start, but not really an ideal solution. There are boots that allow a 4" hose, that just clamp onto the spindle. Debating just buying one - but it is too much of an interesting design challenge and something to make!

A vacuum might be a better solution if you stay at 2.5". Still getting my machine set up (silly wasteboard is driving me nuts), going to see if 2.5" is “good enough” on my dust collector - but it’s likely that I’ll be building something that allows a 4" hose.

I have a Delta 1.5HP that runs through a Dust Deputy. Also looking at upgrading it to a system that can run two 4" connections simultaneously - maybe an Oneida V3000 (https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops/v-system/v-system-3000-hepa-cyclone-dust-collector-v2019) so I can do something else in the shop while the 1F is running.

One suggestion I might make before you make your decision. Since you have the HF DC already reduce the intake hose down to 2 1/2 and see how much suction you have. I have the same DC and was trying to decide myself just as you are and was shocked at how little suction the big DC had when reduced down compared to a standard shop vac.

Did you happen to try partially opening another port to dust collector to supplement air flow loss in reduced hose?
I am awaiting my machine and can not decide whether to get a dust collector or shop vac.

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Yeah I tried several different combinations but ultimately it’s based on how a DC operates versus a shop vac. A DC is designed to move large volumes of air at low pressure where a shop vac moves a small amount of air at high pressure. If you partially open another port it just increases the volume of air it’s moving but doesn’t create more vacuum.

Currently running mine on an older fein turbo. With a 5 gallon dust deputy… the vacuum does get warm after running for 6 hours. Doing a wasteboard, some clamps, and a few test cut, surfacing table and surfacing the wasteboard I filled the 5 gallon full. The vacuum was deff warm. I have the dc piped overhead with 4” and reduced down to 2.5 with 8’ chunk, it works decent…but I feel it needs more airflow. I like the other posters idea of splitting into two 2.5” and running a modified floor sweep or smaller big gulp on top the back side of the table…I will be building an enclosure much like meters WoodShop as I can get the 80/20 and window channel and hinges through work. So I feel the additional 2.5 “ in the enclosure will help extract the dust that pushed out from the brush on the suckit.

Maybe a topic for another post. What is the average run time? lol. I still don’t know which way to go. Hopefully someone who has actually tried splitting the 2.5" hose to a 4" dc will chime in.

It is important to consider both the “in” and the “out” of a dust collection unit. When a DC is fitted with a bag filter (the one on top - not the one on the bottom collecting the larger debris,) it begins to create resistance on the “out” side from the moment the first debris and dust enter the system. The “pores” of the bag get more and more clogged as the system processes material. All of the energy the DC must expend on the “out” side comes at the expense of the “in” side and suction suffers (greatly!) as a result. An inexpensive help for this problem is to replace the top bag with a pleated canister filter. Lots more filter surface area and super easy to keep clean. Provides an efficient place for the “out” to go. Here is a link to a short discussion with a trustworthy source - stumpynubs: SNW58- Should you upgrade to a Wynn dust collector canister filter? - YouTube

If I go the DC route, it would have a cyclone and a cannister filter on system.

Just something to consider, based on what I understand, dust collectors are high volume, low velocity systems. Shop vacs are low volume, high velocity systems. You might want the latter to pick up all the small particles created with the CNC – CNCs are not generating a ton of material like a planer or jointer.

Also - I found this video useful as well: 11 common workshop dust collection mistakes - YouTube

-Tom

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Yeah; I understand, dust collectors are high volume, low velocity systems, Shop vacs are low volume, high velocity systems. I have watched that video by Stumpy Nubs,
Before deciding which way to go I am hoping someone that has actually split the 4" hose into two 2.5" hoses made out.
Time of either dc or shop vac running has to be factored in too.

@Spes
Unfortunately my OF won’t be here till late April, so I can’t give you experiential feedback, but I am still going to go with the splitter. I’m running a HF with a super dust deputy and am actually porting the exhaust out in to my backyard. There’s barely even a mess of fine powder left.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure my shop vac pulls as much power as my DC and is actually louder. But my DC is in the garage, and my CNC in the basement, so no joy trying to reuse it.

Is the Fein a lot quieter than a normal shop vac? That might make it worth the extra money then - my shop vac was only $89 at Lowes and works perfectly well enough, but it is very loud and generates a lot of heat in the room when the door is closed.

-Tom

The Rigid shop vac I currently have says about 85 db.
A Fein turbo 1 says about 66 db.
Not sure what my pimped out HF dust collector db is.
If I go shop vac route I may enclose the vac and add some kind of baffle system to it to reduce the noise even further.
I understand the cnc will ultimately be louder than the vac.
I am still not sure if the motor on the vac can run for that long, have to recheck Fein’s stats and see if it is listed.

That’s the ticket! By the way, I’ve tried two different sizes of the import cyclone add ons. They are super inexpensive but - in my experience - do not work as well as the Oneida Dust Deputy lineup. As usual, it is buy the good stuff, cry once over the cost, and never look back.

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Yeah if I go shop vac route it would be a Fein Turbo 1 connected to a 10 Gal. Dust Deputy Deluxe Cyclone.
Haven’t decided on container fill alarm yet.