Hey CalgaryD,
I would not consider it as an exaggeration. The first is a veryfiable fact, and the second part is what I consider as the consequence. I don’t see why I would have dust collection and wood dust is left.
Again, I would link to this video:
You understand why the Felder AF 22 from an Austrian manufacturer is so successful.
Hey Ken,
that is something to put up with, depending on the size and strength of the dust collector. Many people install the Dust collector system in an adjoining room.
The noise is also different. In a Dust Collection System with an induction motor or capacitor-start induction motor, this motor runs not as fast as in a shopvac, and has no high-frequency components as it does not have a carbon-brush commutator.
A Workshop Vacuum Cleaner with its universal motor and carbon-brush commutator runs faster and with a higher fundamental tone, and it has even more high tones due to the commutator. These are partly muffled because the motor is hidden in the depths of the shopvac, and with the hepa filter in front of it, etc.
Several factors to consider. First, is that there is no such thing as 100%. Anything you can do is to reduce the risk, mitigate, you cannot get rid of it completely. The more you try the more expensive it becomes. What is the reasonable action? 80%, 90%, 99%?
Then, the wood dust has not be actually shown to be a carcinogen. There are some correlations, and evidences to suspect it to be, so they put it on the list, just in case. Also, the list has been around for quite a while. The fact that wood dust was added only in 2002 (I trust the post above) just tells me that it was not at all obvious, so the risk should be very moderate, relative to some obvious carcinogens.
Then, not all carcinogens are equal. You can check it yourself, just try to order according to the risk of getting cancer the things below, based on actual numbers:
If you do that, you will find that it is extremely difficult to find numbers that can be compared. Because of that you may be fighting windmills, really. It is a fact, that you can be killed by a meteorite at any moment. Do you consider this when you go outside? Do you try to mitigate that? My point is, we should try to avoid breathing in wood dust, but it is not the most dangerous thing in the world by any measures.
Hey CalgaryD,
I think everyone here already got what I meant and regarding what you argue here, is considered by me as trolling. I hope for you that this does not mean that you have no family that you could better spend your time with.
This is part of what you have to implement at a workplace if you are an employer in my country:
(OEL = occupational exposure limit value)
TRGS 553 Technische Regeln für Gefahrstoffe – Holzstaub – Stand: 12.12.2022
[…]
4.3 Technical protective measures such as ventilation and structural measures
(1) Technical protective measures must be implemented as a matter of priority.
(2) In principle, effective extraction is necessary for all machining processes, e.g. on woodworking machines, manual machines and hand sanding workstations. The OEL for hardwood dust of 2 mg/m³ as inhalable dust must be complied with.
(3) When operating wood dust-tested machines, it can be assumed that the OEL is complied with. Machines that have not been tested for wood dust and do not comply with the OEL must be must be retrofitted or operated with portable dust extractors.
(4) Hand sanding work must always be carried out on vacuumed work tables. If this is not possible, e.g. due to the size or shape of the workpieces, vacuumed hand sanding blocks must be used. Annex 4 lists the design features and requirements for compliance with the OEL of 2 mg/m³ for hand sanding workplaces.
(5) The following hand-held woodworking machines must be connected to an extraction unit (mobile dust extractor dust class M):
- hand-held circular saw,
- hand planer,
- hand router and
- hand slot milling machine/flat dowel milling machine.
(6) The following sanding machines must be equipped with an integrated extraction system with dust bag (paper) - for more than half an hour per shift, however, with an extraction system via vacuum cleaner/mobile dust extractor (dust class M) - and, in the case of stationary work, should be operated work with an additional extraction system via a vacuumed work table.
- hand belt sander,
- random orbital sander and
- orbital sander.
(7) Air recirculation is only permitted if it is ensured that the air is sufficiently purified. Systems with air recirculation may only be used if the following requirements are met requirements are met:
- a return air/exhaust air diverter is available,
- sufficient air purification is ensured, e.g. by continuous residual dust content monitoring or weekly inspection of the filter elements for damage,
- filter material with a degree of permeability < 0.5 % is used and the filter surface area load of 150 m3/m2h is not exceeded. The following applies to filter material of dust class M this applies to a surface load ≤ 200 m³/m²h. For extraction units that are not intended for operation indoors, it must be possible to switch automatically to exhaust air. be possible. The residual dust content in the return air is monitored in accordance with DIN EN 12779, e.g. by optical sensors or police filters.
(8) Dust extractors for portable operation of dust class M are suitable for extracting e.g. manual machines.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
I have always thought that there is a difference between a home workshop and a commercial enterprise… and that if you have a head you can use it instead of following rules invented by somebody else. Thank you for you contribution.
Yes, from Calgary. Why?
I do have a cyclone and have not changed the bag of the Nilfisk in a few month.
I still prefer the Nilfisk Attix 50 to most options discussed here.
It is really quiet and has a Hepa filter, the the air in my shop is very clean.
I think the quality of the dustboot is also a really important part that has not been talked about enough here.
Really interesting discussion about the health impact of dust.
When I was apprentice in a woodshop 30 years ago we were just standing behind the planer and the woodchips were blown in our faces. Not really enjoyable.
I totally agree with Doconefall, I do not think that woodust is particularly cancerogenic, but there a many other scary diseases connected to long term dust exposure, especially pneumoconiosis (Staublunge).
I had the fein turbo setup with a cyclone and it was great and quiet. I upgraded to the Oneida dust cobra set up as it is hepa rated and built for extended duty cycles like CNC work. I’ve been using the Oneida for over a year and have zero regrets.
What I really like about Oneida, they do provide actual practical numbers. This Cobra, the specs recommend 20 A circuit for it. Do you run it on a 20 or 15 A circuit?
I do run this on a 20 amp circuit.
I looked at those units. Only 245cfm. Not very much and well below what is recommended for table saw/bandsaw/etc. it’s more designed for smaller port handheld power tools. It wouldn’t work for my situation. I contacted Oneida to ask for a recommendation. (. They are very nice and responded quite quickly). They recommended a supercell or the v system for me. That would have been WAY more expensive like $3000.
I was never able to find a recommended cfm for Onefinity let alone a bench top. Kind of frustrating actually.
I bought it with intentions of only using it as a dedicated collection system for the CNC. I have a Fein and cyclone for my hand power tools, and a larger unit for the big power tools. For the CNC the cobra works better than the Fein vac, Ridgid, and 2hp dust collector. I like that the Cobra is built to run for long durations of time. The shop vacs get quite hot on long runs.
I am sorry that I have not read and followed every rabbit hole here, but has anyone considered going to a wood working store (Woodcraft or Rockler) and purchasing one of their 2hp dust collectors? The machines are made to do what you are needing. $500 plus tax
I personally think this is the best way to go. Although you do need to upgrade the bags to better filter media which can add hundreds of dollars. Better dust collectors that come with upgraded filler cartridges will see your back well over $1000.
People complain about the noise. Personally I think my lungs are worth it. I can use ear plugs/headphones. Breathing is more important. I don’t trust a vacuum to pull in enough air to get the fine dust which isn’t visible to my old eyes. There’s no way having wood dust in your lungs can be a good thing.
But to each his own.
All my stuff has HEPA or upgraded filters. Also if you own a dust collector there are aftermarket companies that sell upgraded filter media. Wynn environmental is an example. They make canisters that can be retroactively fit to most 2hp dust collectors. Costs about $300-$500. I’m sure there’s more companies if you look for them.
I think Oneida if a good company but it’s not the only one if your going the dust collector route. They are very expensive. They sell nice stuff but you pay for it. I have a couple of their products but I couldn’t justify the price for a full dust collector unit from them.
For me, I had a jet dust collector already. Their products didn’t offer more cfm, static pressure etc. plus I would have had to spend $3000+ to get anything better than my $700 dust collector. I rebuilt it with a kit from Oneida into a two stage kit with upgraded Hepa filter for like $600.
In the past, I have emailed them and their customer service has been great. I just think if your not made of money and you don’t mind a bit of work you can come up with equal solutions for half the price. Spend the rest upgrading your machine to an elite! Haha.
I use Harvey’s Giro Air G-700. Very Quiet, adjustable and efficient. The unit is 6 feet from the router and the air being drawn from the dust boot is noisiest. 2 1/2 inch hose used. 3 foot from the QCW reads 65dB with spindle, water pump and dust collection running. Once cutting, the tool squeals on the first pass but quiets down on subsequent passes. Sorry, didn’t take dB reading while cutting but the process can’t be heard outside the shop. The G-700 is used for all the tools, it’s not dedicated to the CNC.
I looked at the CamVac - they are nice units.
It looks like their motors only are made to run ~40 min continuous. They recommend the larger unit for longer runs, and that you need to keep alternating which of the 3 motors you have powered.
I like the Harvey as well - but I can’t get it into my basement unfortunately.
What a great way to leverage your HA experience and tech. If you are like me, there is a part of designing and building such a functional solution that is satisfying.
I wondered about the exhausting of hot air - like you say, beneficial in winter but not so much summer.
I have a Super Cell for my other woodworking tools that I may hook up to my 1F, not sure yet. It is loud and does produce a lot of heat, I am in Southern Utah where we get 105 F in the summer so it is very noticeable, albeit it is good in the winter time except the noise.
Pat
You’re kind of proving my point.
Supercell is a 5hp $3000-$4000 220 volt dust collector. The 2hp jet is 1/3 the price. I wouldn’t race an WV vs a Ferrari no matter how much you upgrade the WV. Your comparing apples to oranges. They are two different classes of dust collector. I wasn’t saying don’t get an Oneida dust collector. They are great dust collectors. (For that money I’d get a clearvue cyclone personally.) By all means if you have the money, anyone would will be happy with it for tools with a 4” port or less. I was speaking more to those who are looking to spend less while still getting an adequate solution.
I would have to pay $1200-1500 for an electrician to wire 220v to my shop as I only have 110v (I’ve gotten estimates from multiple electricians on this in the past). The supercell is $3200-$5000 depending on the model. I like being married. My wife would lose her mind if I told her I was spending $4500-6000 for all that. Thats just my personal situation and my opnion. Just not for me is all.
Not trying to say it’s right for everyone.