I just realize that it can be understood in two different ways. The one is obvious: In the country or region where I live. I was not sure if there are spindle manufacturers in the USA, I know they’re good at machinery too, but the link posted by Bob (CNC Depot, spindles made in Tennessee) made me think: Lucky Jim, a spindle manufacturer in the USA, good to know (for him).
But you may understand it also in a different way: USA and Germany, western democracies (and close friend nations) with worker’s rights, labour unions, very old traditions of machinery, etc. versus authoritarian regime, no humans rights, millions of people emprisoned in Arbeitslagern who - who knows -, may have worked on the cheap items you buy, no warranty, no service, no easily understandable manual.
With “machine with a global customer base” do you mean the Onefinity CNC? Well if that was true. It’s clear that they target only to the USA. Otherwise they would not ignore 95% of the world population by giving any measurements and specifications exclusively in US customary units.
Wow! What a wealth of information. I’ll digest it and see what comes out the other end. On the CNC Depot recommendation, I see ATC models starting at $3,000. I don’t see standard spindles. It is apparently a company geared toward industrial-level users. I’m in the neighborhood where the purchasing the Mechatron would be living on the wild side. If I do go that way, I’ll probably toss caution (and fiscal good sense) to the wind and pay the small difference to go from 1.5/16 to 2.2/20. Now, to investigate the bounty you all have provided.
For milling wood, in a non-production (machine-shop) environment, I couldn’t justify the expense of a Mechatron. If something breaks, I’ll just buy a new one - a few days of an outage is not difficult for me. If I was making aluminum parts and had production commitments, I might make a different choice (or, just have a spare on hand…).
The Buildbotics controller doesn’t support an ATC. I haven’t found the need to look for anything quieter than an air-cooled spindle (even though water-cooled is quieter). Again, for wood I don’t feel a need to look for bearing quality options past what’s readily available.
I had an 800w/65mm spindle at first. It fit - but barely. I haven’t found many 3/8" bits - most things are 1/4" or 1/2". I’ve started adding 1/2" bits with the new 80mm/ER20 spindle, and they are handy for certain jobs.
You are wiring 220V mains - it’s not hard, but if you’re not comfortable with it I’d look at a plug-and-play setup. Look up Layne Mims (he’s on the Facebook group) he was selling pre-configured systems very reasonably.
I spent a little more on my setup, instead of going for the cheapest spindle/VFD. I’m likely in for 2x the cost of the cheapest solution. I can call someone in the US for support for my spindle if needed, and I bought a Hitachi VFD ( WJ200-022SF 3HP 2.2kW 230V Single Phase Input VFD - Hitachi) which is a step up from the HY. I’m a retired IT exec, this is a hobby, and I like nice things. Your needs may be different.
the VFD Hitachi WJ200 is practically identical to the VFD Omron MX2 which I own and which I can highly recommend.
The specific model 200V-class single-phase input, 2.2 kW (3 HP) / 11 A outputMichael presented here and bought here for use with a 2.2 kW spindle is called
Note that generally the prices seem to go up in the last monthes this year. Both the VFD and the spindle I bought earlier this year are both much more expensive now.
Thanks, Aiph5u. Actually, the Hitachi is the one at the top of the list since the question came up a couple of months ago. You are right - it is expensive at CNC Depot. It is available at Precision Electric for $320 on back order (they offer and equivalent Invertek model for $3 more - in stock) and $364 at Wolff Automation. Maybe $550 is the list price, or maybe newer (shortage-era) stock. Did you buy an ATC; or is there a non-ATC model at CNC Depot I’m just not seeing?
I don’t think that spindle is priced too much higher than others. Do you know who the manufacturer is? Also, I looked up Layne Mims and didn’t see anything about is PnP systems. Do you have a link?
I hate what the Chinese leaders do their countrymen. We have, however, become hyper-dependent upon imported goods - both for price reasons and for domestic policy that encourages such dependency. In fact, there are now many “essentials” that are no longer made anywhere in this country. It has become a precarious position in which to be. I don’t want to let this thread drift into politics, but I do want to acknowledge your thoughts. I’m right there with you.
Regarding Onefinity, I congratulate them on identifying a need, creating a product that admirably fills that need, identifying a ripe market, and going after that market on the way to growing large enough to cover a larger market. They’re responsive and ethical to boot. I’m glad to have found them.
I don’t know the manufacturer - I’m assuming it’s made in China somewhere. I mainly chose it because it was air-cooled.
I would send a message to Layne on Facebook to see if he’s still offering to set up (wire and program the VFD) systems. Feedback has been that he does a great job. Not sure if he sets up the Hitachi though - most folks have the HY VFD.
Jim:
When I purchased my onefinity I was not happy with the thought of using the Makita router as it limited one to using bits with a 1/4" shank. Fortunately before my machine arrived they came out with the 80mm spindle holder. After doing a lot of research I purchased a G-Penny 2.2kw spindle from Ali-Express. When looking at the spindle on Ali-Express the only Id on the spindle is BST2.2-80-24K. On e of the reasons for going witrh this sapindle
To continue one of the reasons I chose this spindle was the fact that the ground pin on the spindle was actually hooked up so that it worked. Most of the Chinese spindle do not use this feature. This spindle also gives you the opportunity to go with ceramic bearings. Possible the only drawback for some is the fact that everything including the water pump is 220v. Forgot to mention this is a water cooled spindle. I am not a heavy user of this machine but I have found this spindle to be super quiet and runs super cool. Probably the longest I have run the machine is 1.5 hrs. Hope this might give you a little bit more information.
Unfortunately, my initial budget for my current project was not sufficient for the automatic tool changer from the beginning, but I was able to buy everything else in good quality. Because I consider the ATC to be necessary for serious professional work, I will have to start up the system first and buy the ATC later.
When converting to ATC, there is the option of retrofitting an existing spindle with a Tool Change Adapter, but as can be seen here or here, this probably requires a second bracket for reasons of stability, and unlike many semiprofessional and industrial-grade CNC machines, the Onefinity does not have a large mounting plate for spindle holders, just a single 65 mm and a single 80 mm spindle holder. That was discussed here the other day: One possibility to support such a retrofit ATC Adapter would be to mount two 80 mm mounts on top of each other, but then you would lose a bit of Z Travel.
That’s why I think, instead of retrofitting an ATC Adapter, I will later buy the ATC-8022-30-HSK25 spindle with HSK (DIN 69893) Tool Changer instead of ISO 7388 Tool Changer. This 2.2 kW 80 mm 30000 RPM ATC spindle can also be seen here in this unboxing video. One reason to buy an ATC spindle straight away is that compared to a separate ATC adapter that is subsequently added, you only have to pay once for the bottom ball bearings. The most stressed ball bearings are always located at the bottom, where the axle exits, and they often are more expensive angular contact ball bearings in order to absorb both radial and axial forces, and of course a separate ATC Adapter has its own bearings, but you’ve already paid for a pair of them located in the bottom of your spindle, which would then slide upwards when you mount the ATC at the bottom, where they are of less necessity.
Also if you buy an ATC spindle straight away, then the ATC mechanism is not at the bottom but at the rear, and one single bracket like on the Onefinity would be enough to hold it, the whole thing is shorter than as the two as separate things, and you only pay once for the good ball bearings.
I did not see any spindles for manual tool change in their web shop. But I did not buy anything at CNC Depot in Tennesse, it was Bob who posted the link.
I try to buy things locally because of shipping costs:
What I meant by the price hike was about the spindle, cooling unit, the VFD and other things that I bought:
I bought the Mechatron HFS-8022-24-ER20 earlier this year for 899,00 € (approx. $1058.35¹) but now the price is 970,92 € (approx $1120.98¹),
the Mechatron Cooling Station KG5000 I bought earlier this year for 771,12 € (approx. $907.80¹) but now the price is 832,81 € (approx. $961.52¹)
the Omron 3G3MX2-AB022-E bought earlier this year for 357,00 € (approx. $420.28¹), but this one did not change its price, but it’s not available now at the moment in the shop where we bought it.
Many things have become more expensive during the last two years and many are not available, I assume on the one hand because for the suppliers the costs for international transport have exploded (up to 1200%) and on the other hand because many goods are difficult to obtain, e.g. computer chips. So I’m lucky that I bought my stuff already.
1.) As of 2021-11-04, Euro exchange rate may be different today
Just my fyi. i have HY spindles on all my machines. had a 1.5kw 220 65mm air cooled on my onefinity and now upgraded to 2.2kw 220 80mm. have that same spindle on my cnc4newbie. i’ve had water cooled on other machines and liked them as well. quieter below about 16k, gets pretty loud above that.
that said, i’ve got over 550 hours on both cnc4newbie and onefinity. about 450 of that on 1.5 spindle, rest on 2.2. no issues, runs great, love the setup.
148 for 2.2 air cooled spindle
I bought my vfd on amazon. Hy 2.2 for about 138
I’ve used the S30 cncdepot package for avid, ATC and it is a great package. comes with wriing, box and all for about 5000.
that said, i’ll stay with my setup until i upgrade cnc machines to a full size 4x8 or 5x10 setup for cabinets.
give me a shout if you have any questions. Hardest thing about the round 80mm on onefinity is lack of room for dust shoe. using pwncnc v7 with 4" right now. nothing else fits.
Wow. Thanks Layne. Two quick questions? On your 1.5, did you have any difficulty with fit on the Onefinity Z setup? Some have pointed out that height of the spindle can pose problems. One the 80mm option, this is the first I’ve heard of dust shoe issues. Any thoughts on pwncnc V8 made for the Onefinity?
It is a bit taller and you have to watch it as it will hit if you are not careful. i didn’t have trouble past that.
on the 80mm, the back side is so tight, it limits. i use the v7, and it is good. not seen the v8 yet. it does not fit my layout quite as well. i may ask them to do testing on it.
i use a jet with 6 in mains and 4 in drops ot a jet cyclone 2hp. that big of a machine is more work to get the hose right, and supported.
Much talk of various spindles in this thread so I want to toss this in and ask if anyone has any knowledge of this spindle made by Hammer. The big advantage of it is the tool-free quick change collet built into the spindle. Watch in this video by Marius Hornberger on YT where he shows how it in operation.
You’ll also see how he measures the spindle to check for perpendicularity with the work surface and makes corrections.
You might also be interested in his recent dust boot build video which uses the 4th axis to automate dust boot elevation.
Further research turned up this spindle is made by Mafell. Model FM 1000 PV-WS. https://fm.mafell.de/en/
You mean that after mounting the 65 mm spindle you were not able to let the machine drive to its uper Z limit?
The PWNCNC Dust Boot V7 that Layne is using is something very different than the PWNCNC Dust Boot V8. The V7 is clamped to the router/spindle with collars supporting router/spindle sizes of 65mm, 69mm and 80mm in diameter, whilst the V8 attaches to the Suckit Dust Boot arms with magnets and is especially designed for the Onefinity and only available through Onefinity. Also the V8 routes the dust hose around the back of the X Axis instead the front.
Yet I haven’t received my shipment containing both the Dust Boot V8 and the 80 mm mount, but with regard to its design and its construction, I see no problems on how the Dust Boot V8 could interfere with the 80 mm Spindle Mount.
