Suckit dust shoe Bristles causing blockage

Hi
Ive recently been experiencing the bristles of the suckit pro dust shoe being sucked up on the inside creating a jam and blocking flow of chips into the vacuum and making a huge mess of work area and machine. yes i know there will be some but im talking total blockage of the vacuum port of the dust shoe by the bristles being sucked in the way but just the inner bristles. I tried removing the bristle strip and turning it inside out and still happens. they are the loner of the bristles that came with the machine and dust shoe i ordered.
any ideas and suggestions on how to eliminate this problem?

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Hey CNCGeek,

there is a big difference between a workshop vacuum cleaner and a dust collection system.

  • Workshop vacuum cleaners generate a very high negative air pressure but produce rather low air volume flow,
  • Dust extraction and collection systems are the other way around: they generate much less negative air pressure but a very high air volume flow.

(Air pressure is measured in Pascal (Pa), Air volume flow is measured in cubic meter per second (m³/s) (US/imperial: cubic feet per minute (cfm)))

As an example, a workshop vacuum cleaner like the Festool CLEANTEC CTM MIDI I produces a negative air pressure of 24000 Pa, but only an air volume flow of 3700 l/min = 3.7 m³/min = 222 m³/h (= 130.7 cfm)

On the other side a Dust Collection System like the Felder AF 22 produces an air pressure of only 2510 Pa, but a very high air volume flow of 3100 m³/h = 3,100,000 l/h = 51,666 l/min (=1824.6 cfm)

As many people reported here, a dust collection system is more effective for the Onefinity CNC when milling wood than a workshop vacuum cleaner. And it would also resolve your problem with the bristles: Your negative air pressure is too high. Also usually dust collection systems are quiter since they usually have induction motors in contrast to universal motors with their loud carbon-brush commutators on vacuum cleaners, which also often run on very higher speed than a dust collection system.

The good thing about dust collection systems, as they are technically rather simple, an entry price is the Harbour freight 2 hp system with its $299.99. However I would always recommend a dust collection system with a pleated polyester filter cartridge with dust class “M” for reasons of health. Wood dust is cancerogenic.

Conversion

1 l/min = 0.0353146667 cfm
1 cfm = 28.316846592 l/min

1 m³ = 1000 dm³ = 1000 l

1 l/s = 60 l/min = 3600 l/h
1 m³/s = 60 m³/min = 3600 m³/h

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If you can’t change to a dust collection system you can reduce the negative pressure by installing a speed control on the vacuum if it using a brushed motor or introducing some leakage.

I have this one connected to mine.

Speed Controler on Amazon

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thats a huge difference in air flow. Interesting! that’s a first time ive heard about air flow differences between a vac and dust collection system. Very Interesting.
Ive already got what i have it will have to do for now.
I exhaust my vacs output to the outside so I dont get those .3 microns of dust and less into my work area for safety and health and it reduces heat within the work area. yeah sucks out my cool/heat air too i know but I have my work area sealed off as tight as I can get it. thats what made me exhaust my vac outside as before I did that i could barely push the door open from the vac pressuring the room lol

Ill have to study this air flow you are explaining to me.
For now I think ill switch to a stiff bristle. Its a better option for me to try at this point rather than spending another 300 bucks on dust collection system or so I think anyways.
with my setup i have not seen any dust accumulation in the area of my machine. To me its working. I just have to find a way to keep the bristles from clogging the extraction port in the dust shoe. more R & D work lol
thanks for your input and help I know you’re right.
Theres a many things I sure dont understand but one persons weakness is another’s strong point and visa versa
thanks for getting back to me with an answer and explaining to me the issue.
Ill do some research so I understand it more thoroughly. from your example given I can see a huge difference.
No one in the youtube university has mentioned this in their videos they make on the dust systems and why they use one over the other or id probably went with a dust collection system instead. Good ole hindsight. always 20/20 lol

Im gonna get back to making my designs, and working around the errors I create. as you can tell theres many lol
take care and have a terrific day.

Great idea. I like that.
I like the way you think.
but wont that reduce the ability to remove chips? how does that affect the lifespan of the motor? Probably helps less rpms means less wear on bearings and brushes im sure its a brush style motor maybe not. Ive not looked at that yet.
21 is a lucky number. I think ill give it a shot
thank you
If your cnc machine survives my use it is indestructible lol
its been good so far just trying to learn all the ropes and some errors I get. is a challenge for sure. theres things I dont like but its not the main part of the machine. its sturdy as a tank.
the qcw frame though Im disappointed that the work area verses the spindle is so off center.
i cannot install a fence or dowels in the front for alignment and assemble per the instructions without losing too much work area. so i’m gonna start working from the rear I guess to align my work with fences or dowels etc and it allows for using the t track for the entire work area for clamping and i lose less work area that way.
thats the cheapest solution i can come up with so far.
The other option is to make 4 new Y rail mounts 4.5 inches offset and install to the current Y rail mounting blocks or a new mounting blocks for the y rails with the offset of the mounting location then the spindle would be in the center of the work area. which will be costly to make.
Hope that you can understand what Im talking about on the mounts for the qcw frame that im trying to explain here. lol
anyways that’s another topic i know lol
feel free to delete any of this from the forum idc but maybe theres things we are discussing that can help others out too so its all up to you guys and gals
Im gonna give the speed controller a try Thanks again greatly appreciated

Slowing the motor will reduce suction but you already have too much. Its a rheostat so you can just dial it down enough to stop the problem and still maximize your collection. Everything’s a trade-off. It will help your vacuum live longer since its not operating at peak. Which helps, since its also working in spans longer than normal. But IMO its consumable, albeit pricey. If I had room for dust collection over a shop vac I’d have it. Its better all around.

There are extension block someone on etsy 3D prints, but you could just as easy cut a spacer in wood to do the same. You can also adjust the height of the z axis, it has 3 mounting points.

Don’t sweat questions or mistakes. You can’t learn without either.

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I dont understand the extension blocks. what are you referring to? I know the z has height adjustments. I think right now i’m set in the mid range of them. I forget lol
I have no problem reaching my work or spoil board with my tool in the router so far and my height is fine for the amount of material thickness Ive used. Ive used material from .250 to 1.5 inches. gotta be careful with the dust shoe being static and not moving with the router. I almost had a major crash and caught it just in time. lol

When I’m referring to the rail mounts of the qcw frame Im talking about where the rails connect to the qcw frame. ive attached a photo to this email for clarification.

if that mounting location was 4.5 inches more to what I call the rear of the work area the spindle could be centered in the frames work space allowing user more options for fences, clamps etc. As you can see there in the photo my spoil board is surfaced and comes to the edge of the front and there 9 inches left in the rear that has not been surfaced and youll never surface the whole area but you should be centered better.
right now i have 0 area in the front left and I have 9+ inches to the back
side to side is great.
attached is another photo to help clarify. that photo is the rear of machine

yeah im against a wall cant tile my projects yet lol that will come later. lol

I’m not following entirely but I don’t have the QCW frame. I’d recommend a new thread with that in the topic as it’s more likely to bring in people who have it and can help more.

and yes that will make the overall footprint larger but imo it would be worth it to be center of the qcw frame to do my machine work and have dowels or fences i can adjust as needed for alignments and jigs etc and way less loss of area i can use to machine projects
idk just a thought id like to share with you all.
So if you locate the y rails 4.5 inches more to the rear youll be pretty much in the center to machine projects. its do to the spindle that has to be mounted on either side of the x rail.
i could move the spindle to the other side and machine all that 9 inches but still not centered to the frame. you see what I am talking about now?
It has me wanting to redesign my bench an do away with the qcw frame but hate to do that and waste the money on the frame. I like its design other than this off center issue

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yeah i agree. can you move it there? Maybe others can gain or help from it.
I really wanna thank you for taking all this time and effort working with me today. you don’t know how much better that makes me feel about my purchase. I can probably figure out how to copy and paste it a new topic idk i don’t come here often until i can’t for nothin figure out what Ive done wrong lol
my apologies and A big THANK YOU

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Thanks @ Aiph5u great summary of the difference. I always appreciate your responses

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On the dust boot issue, do you use the longer brush bristle strip, or the shorter? Mine came with both, I use the shorter one connected to a rigid shop vac with a dust deputy in between. I never had any issues with blockages like you described. Just curious…

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using the longer ones to clear clamps etc The blockage happens right inside the shoe as it runs because the suction pulls the inside of the bristles up right at the port where the hose is. the outer bristles stay in place thats why i tried turning the bristle strip inside out from where i had it. i thought they might just be getting worn. but it appears too much suction is thew issue with the shoe design. its just those at the edge where the hose connection is the rest do not do that. I haven’t bought the dust deputy yet that was gonna be my next investment. did you get the diy dust deputy or the whole kit ? Ive been trying to research everything on therm. id like to save myself all I can to buy some bits lol

Are you sure you are using the Suckit dust shoe??? The problem you are having seems to be possible with a dust shoe that goes up and down with the router so that when you go into a pocket the bristles will flex and get cut off. The Suckit boot I have floats at the same level the entire carve and the bristles don’t flex and get cut off.

Dave

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yes Dave its the suckit dust pro i ordered with the cnc router from onefinity. Everything but my bits has came from them. I didnt want to trust anything they didnt build and design to go with the cnc router. it stays in one position. I set it to barely drag on the surface and if i flatten a board I sometimes adjust it downward as material is removed. Like if I have to remove say 1/4 inch off the boards surface and chips start to fly out. sometimes i just let them fly too but usually i watch and make sure nothin goes wrong. ive had a cpl of those oh shoot moments lol its hilarious how you get all thumbs if something goes awry lol i couldnt find the estop lol id like to had a video of me that day. talk about a laugh. here is that went. I started with a 2x12 and after that mistake I to save my design I have to surface it down and tried again and goofed 2 more times. i ended up with a 2x12 x 1/4 thick lol
This thing will not stop or the router with .500 deep cuts lol makita struggled a bit but not the onefinity it kept right on going half way across my board before i found the estop lol bit survived as well 130 ipm 1/4 compression bit still cuts like new

I had the same issue with the bristles getting sucked towards the hole and trapping sawdust. I just trimmed the ones that were getting pulled in and that seems to have fixed it.

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if i can get my machine to run ill try that. ive went and apparently forgot everything i thought i knew after 2 weeks or more of what i call success using it. I guess its back to the start again but where is the start lol uhg maybe a cold mountain dew is what i need.
thanks to everyone for your input. it sure helps.

Hey CNCGeek,

this is a limitation of the QCW Frame. Since it is a rectangle that is located simply under the Onefinity’s four feet, but the milling motor’s center is always on one side of Y axis, the workspace is shifted with respect to the rectangle of the frame. To avoid this would have required to make the transverse tubes longitudinal instead of transverse, and also to make them overhanging, which would mean above all that the blocks that are under the feet should not be at the end of the tubes but slightly before the end. That would be much more complicated. But the QCW frame is not so but simpler. And that it is quite expensive for being the way it is, some people think so too.

OT: For people visiting the forum in the future and searching for topics and solutions, it is always the best to have one topic, one thread, with a meaningful and appropriate subject line. Feel free to open one on the main page by clicking on “New Topic” if required, and describe your issue or question precisely.

By the way, besides the technical FAQs that come from the Onefinity manufacturer, the discourse.org forum provides a more general FAQ concerning discussion culture, and it says:

Improve the Discussion

Help us make this a great place for discussion by always working to improve the discussion in some way, however small. If you are not sure your post adds to the conversation, think over what you want to say and try again later.

The topics discussed here matter to us, and we want you to act as if they matter to you, too. Be respectful of the topics and the people discussing them, even if you disagree with some of what is being said.

One way to improve the discussion is by discovering ones that are already happening. Spend time browsing the topics here before replying or starting your own, and you’ll have a better chance of meeting others who share your interests.

[…]

Keep It Tidy

Make the effort to put things in the right place, so that we can spend more time discussing and less cleaning up. So:

  • Don’t start a topic in the wrong category.
  • Don’t cross-post the same thing in multiple topics.
    […]
  • Don’t divert a topic by changing it midstream.
    […]

Rather than posting “+1” or “Agreed”, use the Like button. Rather than taking an existing topic in a radically different direction, use Reply as a Linked Topic.

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