I am looking at 1F and a couple others CNC. ATC is important but not a deal breaker. Any time line and possible cost> others are costing in the 800-1000 range
Most ATC spindles alone are $2k-$4k (and higher for European brands).
What did you mean by ATC, and what were you referencing that costs $800-1000?
Stepcraft M1000 add on for ATC is just over $800 with their spindle
True, I was not including ATC adapters. One thing to consider is these are for a smaller spindle limited to ER11 collets and European SK tool holders (can hold 1/4"/8 mm tooling). From my experience, depending on the functionality you want, there may be a tradeoff with cost and what/how the ATC process is controlled - i.e., sensors in the spindle, etc…
It is a simpler and less expensive route to go however.
I am trying to find out if 1F has ATC in the pipeline for their systems. As far as stepcraft goes they supposed to have adapter brackets to hold an after market spindle. Not sure of what all goes into that. Thanks for your responses.
I think the Onefinity team is really busy right now, and I do not imagine they have the time to invest in planning all that is involved in a turnkey ATC for their machines - they would not tell us regardless.
But many are remaining hopeful I am sure
True. They haven’t even released the tool setter which was supposed to come out before elites starting shipping
I have hinted at this before, but Alex has ok’d the discussion. I have my Elite Foreman down with CNC Depot (cncdepot.net) right now. They are putting a 2.2 Kw air cooled spindle, control box, ATC and a few other goodies. To quote them “High-precision, quality spindles, manufactured and supported in the Unites States!” I would advise you to take a look at the runouts they seem to me getting.
Basically, I am getting a very similar setup to the Avid configuration. I am in a CNC class at a community college, so I will compare it’s set up to a Haas.
CNC Depot has been around for a quite a while … Clough42 on youtube installed their spindle ~3yrs and seems quite happy.
I will certainly advise this group on the outcome of the project, including performance and costs.
Oh costs are not cheap … 30 AMP 220 line, and “Clean dry air” …copper pipe is not inexpensive.
Really excited to see it back in your hands and up and running (not more than you I imagine ).
I have seen CNCDepot’s turnkey ATC kit for the Avid machines and really like it - they do a nice job with the enclosure, and with 10 tools it comes in at about $5300US wo tx.
I believe you said they are fabricating the needed mount for the Onefinity, hence them having your actual machine. I imagine it will be up to you to decide on what tool change logic you want to use, and then what rack and its placement. This will be a great project!
I have seen pictures of the rough cut spindle mount… Before it is anodized. As we have all discussed the Z Axis maybe the weak point of the 1F… we will see what they can do.
Yeah the cost you mentioned is about right. But I think this will be a case of buy once, cry once.
This in my mind can put the 1F in the same class as the 4x4 Avid or ShopSabre… If that is true or not, we will see.
I believe the cost to be reasonable given what you are getting for the money. As someone who has built everything from scratch, I know that the costs add up quickly, especially if you are looking for better quality components.
I think Onefinity will always stand out given their choice of linear motion hardware (hardened tubular rails and bearings) vs the linear rails and guide blocks of, for example, the two companies you had mentioned. Having said that I agree that it is similar to the Avid offerings - the ShopSabre machines stand out a bit for me given the steel frame construction, even on their small 23 line.
Any idea on when your machine will ship back to you ready to go?
Hey Carl and Lynn,
I would also be very interested in seeing the result of the mount they make for attaching a CNCDepot spindle! Hope you will introduce the results here with many pictures!
I recommended the SS23 to a client of mine for a particular recurring need they have. The thing runs 5 days a week cutting very abrasive materials and has been in service for ~2.5 years. Very impressed with the performance, which I attribute to the quality of components all over the (mechanical) build.
While the 1F hits very similar specs, the ShopSabre steel frame is really what sets it apart in my eyes, as you mentioned @TMToronto. The thing is so stout, and it also has a much heftier price tag by the time you configure it the way you’d actually want it. I am continually and legitimately surprised by how close the 1F comes to the same performance for a fraction of the cost. My Journeyman X50 is similarly configured for less than half the price of an almost fully loaded SS23 (no vacuum table or rotary axis).
There’s a big opportunity for improvement around the 1F “machine stand” / table offering. A solid steel fame could alone take the 1F to new heights for the majority of users. Especially if it was able to solve squaring, coplanarity and table building (I know some people like this, I’m not one of them).
So to put this in perspective, @CandL you are getting a 4x4 machine with an ATC for less money than a 30”x40” “industrial quality” machine without an ATC, but that has an all steel frame. (Aside: Its noteworthy that the gantry uprights on the SS23 are Aluminum). It’s an interesting comparison when you think about the value of these different attributes.
I am so curious about how this ATC build will turn out, @CandL. Please share pics! Also, please put it on a solid, rigid frame so we can at least start talking about how our “prosumer” machines measure up to the big industrial boys like ShopSabre, DMS, etc… it would be fascinating to see a Foreman tailored and upgraded for more industrial, significant duty cycle applications.
makerjace … I typed my response a bit hastely … what I should have said was “approaching the class of Avid and Shop Saber”.
I am a retired aerospace Mechanical Engineer, but I was a design & analysis kinda guy. But to rectify that I am taking manufacturing classes at a community college. Yup I am the guy on social security sitting beside the 19 yr olds.
I agree, these machines are no Haas/Fanuc/Mazak … but I will be stupid enough to try aluminum and some mild steel. ( I am running Haas’s at school … break someone else gear ) My class “project” is a SMW fixture plate … the others are making refrigerator magnets… go figure?
As far as the “commercial” aspects of the 1F, this too is interesting. For me, my basement shop can only handle 4x4, no way a 5x10 with a vacuum table. But if I had a small shop, do I go TWO 4x4 vs a 5x10? Again, at my old employer the big win was one man two or more machines. (one man three, and now we are talking)
I could keep going, but I think this conversation would involve adult beverages. ( I am in Cincinnati so Bourbon is always good)
This is all an “adventure” but the lessons learned will be good one.
This is exactly the same mentality I’ve come to employ. It doesn’t take long to realize that more spindles = more productivity. The potential for 1F to provide this from a cost perspective is pretty mind boggling. Do I want 1 machine for $50k or 10 machines for $5k? Or even 5 fully optimized 1Fs for $10k each?
Anyway, serial thread high-jacker over here. Exited to see the ATC build!
When I saw the walk around of the 23 it is funny how my eyes were drawn immediately to the gantry uprights - I wondered how much money it would cost to have them be steel plate. This not based on any real life experience (or analysis from Fusion FEA or the like ), so maybe this difference in metal provided no real structural advantage. Advertised repeatability of 0.02 mm seems reasonable, and what easily achieve (and better) with my Woodworker X50/Masso G3/Jianken ATC build.
Perhaps another advantage of investing in multiple Onefinity machines might be future upgrades. It may be easier for a small shop to sell a few older machines, in a fairly strong DIY/Hobby market, and reinvest in Onefinity’s newest offering(s), than try to sell a larger once $50k+ CNC.
Maybe if Onefinity’s next move is to partner again, maybe with a CNCDepot or the like, in order to provide an ATC line of Elites. Mere speculation given their history .
My guess is CNC Depot might have a thing or two to say about the Z gantry. But I am sure that comes as no surprise.