Trying to install a vfd driven spindle to my Woodworker. I see that I can use the speed control through the 26 pin D type breakout board (Via RS485) to the VFD, The VFD I have (HY01D523B) does not appear to have the RS+ and RS- connections I’ve read about but has a connection bus as shown in the attached picture. Any thoughts on which terminals have the RS+ and - connections?
usually I suggest to Read The Fine Manual…
Welcome to the forum!
Didn’t come with one, and the on-line docs show RS+ and -. Very annoying.
Huanyang changing the VFDs hardware / the manual / the specifications without prior notice was frequently reported. A word used in this context is “mess”.
The terminals that you show are not like those I have ever seen on Huanyang HY Series VFDs.
I found this manual which seems to have the same pin layout for a different branded product. https://cdn.hackaday.io/files/255641093730176/VFD%20ASKPOWER%20A131%20UserGuide.pdf
I can’t find any mention of it supporting RS-485. It seems like it may have a RS-232 port.
when you say you have an Huanyang HY01D523B, why is it a Isacon ASKPOWER A131 instead?
Seems with the link Atroz provided you have a RJ-45 connector somewhere for the serial communications interface:
The pin designation labeled “PC” oviously refers to DB-25 modem port on PCs:
|Name||Typical purpose||Abbreviation||DTE||DCE||DB-25 pin|
|Clear To Send||DCE is ready to accept data from the DTE.||CTS||in||out||5|
|Transmitted Data||Carries data from DTE to DCE.||TxD||out||in||2|
|Received Data||Carries data from DCE to DTE.||RxD||in||out||3|
This pin assignment is not to use for the 25-pin I/O port on the buildbotics-derived Onefinity Controller!
So you need a crimp pliers for a 8P8C Modular Connector and a few meters of telecommunications cable.
I’m not sure he can use RS-232. It’s a 12v system vs the 5V of RS-422. RS-422 is half duplex, much faster bit rate, etc… I haven’t looked into whether the Onefinity controller can do RS-232 instead of RS-422.
Hey Atroz, hey David @RedTonto, hey all,
here’s the RS-485 interface / Modbus doc at buildbotics.
While RS-485 can do full-duplex over four wires, the RS-485 interface at buildbotics uses only two wires.
You are right, RS-232 is not compatible out of the box with RS-485.
- RS-485 – a descendant of RS-422 that can be used as a bus in multidrop configurations
- RS-422 – a high-speed system similar to RS-232 but with differential signaling
Anyway, there are RS-232 to RS-485 converters available.
Why can’t people simpy buy serious VFDs? It’s the VFD that gets your best efficiency and performance out of your spindle, not the spindle itself. I would never save on that. People think they can get the constant torque over the wide speed range with this crap. Huanyangs HY Series and also the VFD presented here, obviously no Huanyang but a Isacon ASKPOWER A131, don’t even have Sensorless Vector Control, only stupid U/f control.
Hey Atroz, hey David @RedTonto, hey all,
from my age, I’m one of those who still have it in their head that if the bits are lost on your modem line, you have to ask yourself if you really have ±12 V at the RS-232 outputs, but that was a long time ago.
I think the last time I made a circuit with RS-232 it was twenty-five years ago and with Maxim MAX232 chip.
The MAX232 replaced an older pair of chips MC1488 and MC1489 that performed similar RS-232 translation. The MC1488 quad transmitter chip required 12 volt and −12 volt power, and MC1489 quad receiver chip required 5 volt power. The main disadvantages of this older solution was the ±12 volt power requirement, only supported 5 volt digital logic, and two chips instead of one.
– Source: MAX232 – Wikipedia
The RS-232 standard defines the voltage levels that correspond to logical one and logical zero levels for the data transmission and the control signal lines. Valid signals are either in the range of +3 to +15 volts or the range −3 to −15 volts with respect to the “Common Ground” (GND) pin; consequently, the range between −3 and +3 volts is not a valid RS-232 level.
– Source: RS-232 # Voltage Levels – Wikipedia
thank you for providing this information and images!
What we can see here is confusing but does not surprise me.
It is clear that installing, wiring, programming and using such a complicated device like a VFD witout documentation would be a challenge. I would try to find a manual. But you might find none as I would consider this as a no-name VFD with stolen Huanyang model description; a counterfeit.
Also the data on your nameplate seem to be pure fantasy. You will hardly get 10 A output when drawing 7.5 A input on one phase input. See also
Here you can see my VFD’s nameplate:
It is a VFD for 2.2 kW spindle for one-phase 200-V-class input.
Well, moving this one along a little; it would appear that this really is a “knockoff” Huanyang device put out by ‘Ask Power’ A131.
Some details to follow.
Could it be D0/+ and D1/- for the RS485 connections?
unfortunately not . Seems this version is without serial port, so no Modbus support.
But you can still control spindle/VFD RUN/STOP and SPEED the way that the Masso people do, with a programmable input terminal and an analog 0–10 V voltage line.
Rather neither nor, the Huanyang Logo is missing on the nameplate, and if it was an ASKPOWER A131 it would have a RJ-45 serial port.
I would not recommend these VFD’s at all. Just burned out my third one. The second one just stopped in the middle of a long job. Luckily I was standing there and hit the big red knob. Problem was the fan at top of the spindle was rubbing the wires and removed the insulation, allowing a short.
Replaced with new spindle, smoked it immediately. Probably should have replaced the controller too. Now running the router Onefinity recommends and it just works. No headaches.
So I thought, hang the Huanyang knockoff and bought one from Stepperonline. Hopefully once programmed it should workd ok. I understand that the RS485 needs to be a simple twisted pair cable. Question is shielded or not?
Also, thanks for all the assistance. I hope to pass my expertise on in similar fashion.
Once I get some.
which one did you buy? Is there a special reason that you want a cheap chinese VFD? I hope you made sure it is capable of Sensorless Vector Control and not only the stupid V/f control. Why didn’t you buy one of those that were recommended in the forum by forum users (Omron MX2, Hitachi WJ200, Hitachi S1, Invertek Optidrive)?
It is better to pair a cheap spindle with an expensive VFD than the opposite. It is the VFD that makes the spindle’s properties possible and provides the good motor characteristics, like a constant torque/speed range over a wide speed range, not the spindle itself. Also sensorless vector control will make that speed is not slowed down on heavy loads. So I would never save on the VFD.
If you search the forum, you will find that for signal lines, it is recommended to use 0.14 to 0.75 mm² shielded wire. You don’t explore the forum that much, don’t you?
You know, I have one of the cheap HY VFD with G Penny Spindle and have worked it pretty hard with no issue of it bogging down or anything else, I am curious Aiph5u what kind of machining do you currently do that would bog down the cheap VFD.
I said that mainly because it makes no sense to already own a VFD and to buy one more that offers the same. For what would you need two VFDs? David already owns the one described here. Just because the one has no Modbus capability? That is not a mandatory capability. All Elite Users have no Modbus capability and seem to be very happy though. I was thinking if David @RedTonto buys another VFD, he had an interest in buying a better one.
It is great if you are satisfied with what you bought.
The V/f algorithm delivers a voltage that always dumbly corresponds to the frequency. Remember, you control the speed by the frequency. But it does not take care of the load, i.e. what the spindle really wants to draw.
With vector control, it takes the current state of the motor, its current draw and the magnetic flux into account to adjust the voltage (See here for how it works)).
PS: Just for fun, have you seen this video: Here someone drives the VFD/spindle to its limit. It stays just below the VFD tripping. The video shows the ampères in the VFD display at the output (=spindle) side, and how their 220 V 2.5 kW spindle is driven to draw up to 10 A current from the output of the VFD (video): The test consists of driving a 10 mm 3-flute aluminium end mill through an 6061 aluminium block with 1000 mm/min feedrate, 10 mm depth of cut and 8 mm width of cut (for U.S. customary unit system users: A 13/32" 3-flute end mill through an 6061 aluminium block with 40 IPM, 13/32" DOC, 5/16" WOC).
Another test possibly could be to rough with a 8 mm roughing bit in black locust, one of the hardest woods in Northern America, 1/2" deep at 110 ipm, as shown here (they use a 6.6 kW HSD spindle on a Hitachi WJ200 VFD…)
By the way, on the first video where Piotr tests the 2.5 kW Jianken ATC spindle you can hear that the spindle is slowed down a bit on high load. Piotr uses a Huanyang HY VFD without vector control, so this slowing down is what vector control is trying to avoid. On the black locust / HSD spindle link, a Hitachi WJ200 (nearly identical to Omron MX2) is used that supports sensorless vector control, and you can clearly see and hear that is not slowed down despite the high load.