80mm spindle and VFD choices

We will not sell OR provide technical support spindles or vfds.

We will provide support for the 80mm mount HARDWARE only. If you go the spindle router and have issues with the spindle/vfd, you’ll need to rely on the community for support.

Makes total sense. You are a small and growing company. You need to manage where you allocate your resources. Much better to have them working on something a high percentage of your users will gain benefit. Most interested in an 80mm spindle have the know-how to run it themselves. For those that don’t, there are plenty of other resources available.

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Liquid vs Air cooled spindle?

Many of the industrial machines use air cooled spindles, very few that I have researched use liquid cooling. This applies to large Milling machining centers as well gantry style routers.

My logic is as follows, if you are cutting mainly wood, and seldom use anything larger than a 1/4”/6mm end mill, then air cooling should be more than adequate. Even when using the larger cutters, generally the time is relatively short because those tool paths are for roughing /clearing or profiling. The tool paths that are hours long for 3D finishing cuts typically use much smaller ball end mills with very low spindle load.

There are surely some exceptions, like using 1/2” raised panel bits, but I still think air cooled would be fine. Every hand router and stationary shaper do just fine being air cooled. Maybe adding a heat sink for those corner case heavy cutting jobs.

My feeling is that water cooling just adds a lot of extra stuff that “could” go wrong…more tubes to the spindle , water reservoir or chiller etc…and always the possibility of a line breaking ruining your work piece, spoil board etc.

Anyway, would love to get other folks opinions.

Cheers

Al

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Tome the difference between air cooled and liquid is dust. A fan will suck it into the motor. A liquid cooled spindle has no limit to how slow it can turn (as far as cooling goes) where as a fan cooled spindle is limited to about 7000 rpm. Shouldn’t be too much of an issue for woodworking. A pump should also be quieter than a fan. Also shouldn’t be too much of an issue since the bit is going to make plenty of noise. Air cooled is easier to install since you don’t have to deal with the cooling lines.

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Good point, the fan blows down, but will still suck in some dust and eventually require some cleaning. I noticed most of the import spindles state a minimum speed of 9k rpm, independent of air or water cooling . Agree with the noise, I must admit, I thought the cutting would be loud, but after I do a roughing pass, the small ball nose cutters are taking such small cuts that the majority of the noise is just the motor…for quiet operation, liquid cooling would be a thumbs up

Good Evening TMToronto,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve been working around the clock, and traveling for work, and just able to decompress and reply.
So I ordered the HFS-6515-24-ER11 spindle, a plug and play cabinet, with comes wired and programmed VFD, input filter, braking resistor, main power switch, circuit logic for emergency-stop and reset button, and wired so meticulously, I ordered the Pro Series spindle which is overkill, but I plan on working in aluminum and thinking of a tool changer down the road.
I opted to use an old TIG cooler rather than the unit they quoted me.
The price was about $1300, you could save some money and source the VFD , and build your own box and source your own components, but the build quality, and time saved with plug and play, is worth it for myself with my schedule and needs.
Some saving could be had with the standard series spindle, they do also make a 80mm spindle in air and liquid cooled, just like the 65mm. The quote will vary by exchange rates and what country shipped to.
https://www.mechatron-gmbh.de/en/products/hfs-standard/
This video shows one of the spindles in action milling steel.

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Hi all
I will be purchasing a spindle/VFD when my 1F arrives, however since I’m not yet able to go down the Mechatron route has anybody got any feedback for the Huanyang brand spindle/VFD’s.
I was all set to buy before I read the safety comments regarding ‘no name’ parts in the thread. If anyone has had fires or malfunctions due to the build quality of Huanyang spindle/VFD’s I would really like to know.
Feedback appreciated.
Thanks
Lee

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Thank you for taking the time to reply and provide this information. I have been in contact with a Mechatron representative, and have received a quote. I asked them for details about the manufacture location and bearings - German design/manufacture, and the ball bearings used were metal. Do you know if the Pro Series spindle you bought also uses metal ball bearings, or do they upgrade to hybrid or full ceramic? I am curious as one of the better Asian spindles I got a quote for (Jianken) use ceramic bearings. It may be a mute point given the practical uses for the 1F, as well as the quality variations/precision grade ranges found within different bearing categories.

I have been using that setup for the last few months. Works very well. Biggest hassle was wiring the VFD to the spindle

I did a lot of research before I bought the spindle and the huanyang VFD and spindle is the recommended brand, unless you want to go big bucks and get one of the German spindles. Have used it alot over the last few months and it had worked flawlessly. You will need to source the VFD to spindle wiring yourself s or does not come with it. You will need 16 or 18 Guage 4 wire shielded cable. Make sure you ground the spindle itself.

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Grunmachine, Did you say you ordered the HFS spindle or the Pro series (HFP) spindle?

Been on the road, and slammed with work.
I’ll answer a few questions and some input in one reply, as I’m about to catch another flight.

I ordered the Mechatron HFP spindle, I’m still awaiting the spindle and just received my Fuji VFD, I have years experience with Fuji VFDs in work related manufacturing, and machine shops, great customer support and great value, it was also one of the VFD options with Mechatron package but I was able to purchase for half price locally.
Below are more great VFD options if you choose to go that route.

As Dr-Al mentioned Hitachi makes or used to make a great VFD. Lots of Yaskawa, Fuji, Mitsubishi, Invertek Sumitomo, all the no names on Amazon and eBay seem to be the same origin, and for the price I would only recommend a reputable brand, you can find used or NOS on eBay for a better price and have customer support and safety.

As for my experience with Huanyang spindles was negative, the bearing failed after maybe 30 hours of use, when I had no luck with customer support, I tore it down and was not thrilled with the quality of the no name bearings, I used better bearing on my skateboards and bikes as a teen. I would highly recommend if you want to go down that route, purchase and swap out the bearings with ones that are designed for the types of loads and forces they will encounter in the life as a spindle.
To answer TMToronto, I have no personal experience with the Jianken spindles, I recall seeing a couple overseas.

Most machines I have used or owned run the, high quality Japanese or European made spindles, Italian made HSD spindles, Jager, Okuma, Takisawa and Hitachi Seiki have been the industry standard in Industrial and commercial machines for spindles.

I’m not sure of Hitachi as of lately there has been a large sector sold off to Mori Seiki and not sure if they will be marketed as Mori Seiki…

As for water cooled, it is a mater of noise reduction and extended life, in industrial applications, many air cooled spindles have an independent air supply that provides clean cool air for cooling and also provides air for ATC (Automatic Tool Changers), if I can help or answer any questions within my scope or experience I am always happy to assist. I’ve been busy at work and limited time, so I will reply in time.

Good luck Onefiniteans!

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I went half-way - couldn’t talk myself into a Mechatron. I did find a Hitachi VFD with SVC though: WJ200-022SF 3HP 2.2kW 230V Single Phase Input VFD - Hitachi

For a spindle, I decided to buy from a company that has them in stock in the U.S., and available customer support: High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components.

I went air-cooled - seems simpler, and it’s quiet enough for me.

Now, I have a little time to get these figured out before my 80mm mount and X50 woodworker show up! Also, need to run a 220V outlet to the 1F.

The big reason for the powerful spindle is to have torque at low RPM. It just gives you more options of feeds and speeds. Just ordered my 1F. Super excited to get it. I studied precision machining and metrology in grad school. Just doing hobbies now, but just couldn’t pull the trigger on the other ones knowing all the inherent flaws. Still wish a few things were different, but 1F looks pretty darn good.

I was looking at this one and think it would be the ticket. Still runs on 110V. Just need to make sure your breaker can handle it. Anyone try this model before?

As long as it’s on it’s own 20 amp circuit it should be fine. Since the output of the VFD is also 120v (110v was a standard a long time ago in the US) you’ll need to run a heavier gauge wire to the spindle from the VFD as it’ll be using twice the current.

I had a very bad experience with this vendor. They had zero technical support and the communication system can be cumbersome. Be wary

Ok, I’m sure this has been discussed before but I cant seem to find any information on it. I’ve purchased the 80mm mount and I’m currently researching which spindle to buy. Does anyone know the benefit of going with the 2.2kw spindle vs the 1.5kw? I always view purchases like this as “buy the biggest and best that will work” so I’m leaning toward the 2.2kw so I’m never limited by the spindle in the future. Any thoughts?

I’ve been debating the same thing,
Pros
-more power
-handles 1/2" bit shank as most 2.2kw spindles have an ER-20 collet
Cons
-requires a 20 amp 110v outlet while the 1.5kw will run on a standard 15 amp outlet
-bigger and heavier
-more expensive

I’ve personally debated this extensively. For me, I don’t think the extra power is much of a factor, you already get a lot of power with a 1.5kw spindle. Also to me, the ability to use 1/2" bits was tempting but I will only ever be using mine for hobby work.

If I’m missing something, please, anyone, chime in.

I have a sizable investment in 1/2 shank forming bits that I’d like to have the flexibility to run on the Onefinity once I have the 80mm mount. Also from what I read with the 80mm mount - the spindle clears the Z axis stepper motor which would help with some of my setups where I’m cutting 3-4 inches deep. This currently requires me to make multiple setups and sometimes cut from 2 sides for these operations. If the 80mm mount allows me to make use of the full 130mm Z axis movement that will be worth the investment in time saved.

Can you really run a 2.2kw spindle on 110v input? I thought the math worked out that you would need 30amps to do that - which isn’t practical. All of the 2.2kw spindles I’ve seen are paired with a VFD that requires 220v input.