You buy it separately, make your own choice. See the Vectric website for guidance on what to buy. Basically it comes down to 2 major things. If you want to use the entire 4’x4’ area you need VCarve Pro or you need to do tiling. If you want to do custom 3D designs you need Aspire. If you want to save money when getting started, buy VCarve and upgrade later as you need the larger work area or 3D design. VCarve and VCarve Pro can both do 3D cutting of pre-designed pieces, but you need Aspire or some other 3D program to design your own.
I will also be ordering the PWC 2.2kw 80 mm spindle and kit. Will I be able to install this on the Elite and have it work with the Masso as well?
They have a kit for the Elite. You need to buy the right kit to get the right cable.
Finally, I’ve read a couple of horror stories on delivery being dropped off at the curb and just left. I know there isn’t a 100% guarantee this won’t happen, but I really need a guarantee signature upon delivery. I also live alone, and will need a lift gate so the CNC can be lowered onto a trailer so I can get it to my work shop.
I have a woodworker, it came in 3 boxes that were left on my front porch. No need for a lift gate, they were about 50lbs a box.
If you buy Vectric (not included) you’d get either vcarve pro or desktop (depending on which one you purchase from our store. What things include are here: Products Compare Page | Vectric
We don’t ship with signature on deliver, but if you call, they can help you add this service for an extra cost.
We don’t use lift gate as each box is 50ish pounds.
Okay, I finally made my choice, it’s on order and due to ship in 18 - 20 weeks. Plenty of time to watch youtube and get the Kreg stand in place. Thanks again for all the inputs and suggestions.
1 Like
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
69
Hey Eldon,
if you think of byuing Vectric Aspire in order to be able to use 3D model creation and editing tools, instead of Vectric VCarve Pro, which means you have a big price difference for this additional capability (USD $1,995 vs. $699), you should know that you can also use many other softwares to create your 3D models, e.g. the free and open Blender as mentioned here:
Thank you, I just went with the VCarve Pro for now. Figured it probably more than I will ever need as it is. I will definitely check out these as well, just in case.
Surprise, I may be slow but I keep moving. I found where I had already asked about the spindle, thank you again. I also reached out to PWN and got confirmation. I will supply them with my order number, and they ship the spindle a few days before my Elite ships, and it is plug and play ready. Thanks again for your patience and information.
I “Upgraded” to an Elite Journeyman from the X-50 Journeyman (I know, shoulda got the Foreman, but space was the issue and the wife like to park in the garage!).
Anyways, I have a few take-aways from the experience with both. Basically a few gripes about things the Elite should have that the legacy model has. #1) Job ETA: This was such a nice thing to have on the X-50. I just assumed there was the same thing on the Elite, Nope, you just get a % done and time elapsed. Not very helpful to know how much time has passed. I know that already because I stood there and watched it!
Of course with some algebra you can figure it out but I didn’t listen to Mr. Stoli in 8th grade math class, “You will need to know this stuff in life”. And now I still don’t want to know how to figure it out! Modern machine can carve for me but can’t tell me how long I will have to babysit it!
#2) Remote Interface: The X-50 web interface was pretty good. You could upload files directly to the machine (Without a military grade USB drive installed) and even control most of the functions from the computer as well as watch the progress both digitally and with a cheap usb web cam plugged into the controller. Not bad? Elite can basically upload a single file to that USB that is best left plugged in all the time and tell the fairly useless elapsed job time and % thus far.
#3) Spindle drop: To be fair I didn’t have a spindle for the X-50. But the Elite has this issue where (In my case) an 80mm water cooled PWNCNC 1.5kw 110v spindle falls like a skydiver whos parachute doesn’t open and crashes to the spoilboard, workpiece, tool setter or whatever else is below it (Fortunately not my hand yet, haven’t reach for it when it falls!). This happens whenever you hit the E-Stop button or turn off the power. Now for everyone whos smarter than me and says you shouldn’t hit the e-stop except for “Emergencies”, you are required to cycle it at every startup. no worries if it is already crashed into your spoilboard with the broken 1/16 but jammed into the MDf from the night before, half empty can of laying on the floor and obscenities still echoing in the air! Just e-stop and home it. You can wrangle that broken bit out later!
Now 1F says this is a common problem, tighten the grub screw or follow other threads here and install a physical spring system, brake systems or a z stepper with a brake. None of which are a simple plug and play system and require a degree in electrical engineering or some duct tape and chewing gum.
So if you are late to the upgrade or still deciding which model to get, these are some things to consider.
All very good points, for me the time remaining is not important, nor is the web interface and my 80 MM spindle doesn’t drop, not sure why but I think the nut on the end of the lead screw is a little bit tighter than most, again not sure, what I have seen over the last year on this forum is the seemingly large amount if issues credited to the BB control, sometimes it seems like black magic like having to plug things in the box in a certain order and so much mysterious EMI, the Masso control for me having moved from Mach 3 has been amazing.
This is just my humble opinion , we all have one.
Thanks, pat
2 Likes
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
74
Hey all,
the Masso G3 Touch on the Elite Series is a much more professional CNC controller than the buildbotics-derived Onefinity Controller. But if you consider that the latter evolved to a CNC controller that will do nearly every g-code you feed it with and has an unbelievably reasonable price, you can consider to choose it if you simply want to use a CNC. Care was taken by the original Buildbotics.com developer to release it only after it reached being a serious CNC controller solution.
Problems mentioned here with the buildbotics-forked Onefinity controller firmware do not originate from the open source original Buildbotics.com firmware, but from attempts of Onefinity to further develop their fork of the firmware (sticking with a stable firmware version, e.g. 1.0.9, eliminates these problems), with at same time ignoring the improvements the original Buildbotics made meanwhile.
Also if you want to upgrade later, the Masso G3 is not the only option, there are also other CNC controllers out there that come in question for the bare Onefinity machine.
The issues you have with Onefinity controllers, both buildbotics-derived Original Series and Masso-G3-powered Elite Series, are not issues with the controller but
Lack of a serious cabling solution
1b. Connectors that are made for internal electronics are used on the outside of the machine/controller and subject to permanent movement (possible failures with unpredictalbe axes movements)
Total lack of stepper cabling shielding, so overall susceptibility to EMI, especially when upgrading to a spindle (VFD = heavy source of EMI),
The problem of spindle moving by itself downwards when power is cut or estop is pressed is associated with the heavier Z-20 assembly (the only one on Elite Series, optional on Original Series) where Onefinity replaced the ball screw with one with a much steeper pitch. Besides the possible remedies to this mentioned above (adding a spring balancer to the Z slider, or retrofitting a Z stepper with an electromagnetic brake), sticking with Original Z-16 assembly on Original Series or retrofitting a ball screw with the older, flatter pitch (which has also more detail in travel on Z axis) on Z-20 assembly also eliminates the problem with spindle dropping by itself. EDIT: Onefinity addressed the “spindle plunge on power-up estop” issue on the Elite/Masso by offering a Z motor with electromagnetic brake. Such a motor can also be retrofit to a Original/X-50/PRO Series machine. It will prevent the Z carriage with spindle dropping with gravity on estop and power loss.
OT: Again, I have to say that calling the Original Series “X50” is misleading as the introduction of 50 mm chrome-plated hardened steel hollow shafts on the X axis (instead of the previous 35 mm shafts) is something that both Elite and Original Series have. All Elite Series machines have X-50 rails.
EDIT: I have seen that now in the shop Onefinity groups all machines with the buildbotics-derived Onefinity controller and 35 mm shafts on all axes (X-35) as “Original” Series (the initial “Woodworker” 80 x 80 cm and “Machinist” 40 x 40 cm, both available with 3rd “stiffy” 35 mm rail), and the later updated “Woodworker X-50” version with 50 mm shafts on the X axis, as well as the new “Journeyman” 120 x 80 cm as the “X-50 Series”. The Elite Series with MASSO G3 Touch controller are of course “Elite Series”.
EDIT: The X-50 Series are now replaced by the “PRO Series”. They now got the 30 mm drag chains from the Elite Series, stronger open-loop motors, and the heavier Z-20 Z assembly by default.
I agree the Masso G3 is like the Space Shuttle compared to the Buildbotics VW Beetle. But the space shuttle windows don’t roll down and the air conditioner is luke warm!
I get the Z-20 ball screw is faster and that’s a tradeoff with gravity and the added weight of a spindle but I seriously wonder why anyone would want to run a dumb/manual router on such a professional machine. I believe 1F should have either built it to handle a spindle or have come up with a solution to fix this well known issue.
I didn’t have EMI issues because I kept the Makita router cable outside the drag chains and well away from the stepper wiring and on a different circuit as the controller.
My apologies for referring to the X-50 as the legacy/original series. That’s just were I started so it’s more like my original machine and it’s nomenclature was X-50 Journeyman.
I am mostly happy with my decision in purchasing the Masso Elite machine but there is always room for improvement and I hope 1F and Masso listen to the people who are buying their gear. We are the same people who will want new gear in the future.
What a funny comparision. Made me smile on a grey wet British morning.
I missed the subtlety of the Z20 nose-dive issue. I think, from what i am reading, we can have an elite without the Z20 by doing the retrofit that @Aiph5u suggests. I can not remember seeing that in the forums, has anyone done this change?.
It would also be interesting, as I think @Aiph5u asserts, that you mayget more precision in Z movement which would be important to users doing 3d carves, if not noticeable.
1 Like
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
77
Hey Sean,
[OT: Onefinity Model Nomenclature]
it’s not you that “invented” this, the manufacturer does this, they say “X-50” or “X-50/X-35” for the Original Series. And it uses this “X-50” not logically, because 1. Elite machines all have X-50 rails too, and 2. Original Series do not only differ from alternatively offering smaller X-35 rails, but in what the two Series differ is by their different CNC controller, not their rails diameter. So what I say, to be consistent and logical at least myself, is
and I add “machine” or “CNC controller” depending on which part of the entire machine I am talking of, because the relevant thing is usuall NOT THE RAIL DIAMETER but the CNC CONTROLLER USED.
The Onefinity Manufacturer calls the first type of machines that were offered the first two years “X-35/X-50” machines, and the other “Elite Series”, because there are no X-35 rails models on Elite Series:
Also with the advent of the newest and biggest machine, Foreman (48" x 48"), you also have a machine with X-50 and Y-50 rails, while all other machines, including all other Elite Series machines, have 35 mm rails on their Y axes (which I call “Y-35 axes”, while the Onefinity manufacturer never referred to “Y-anything”).
Also the Foreman (48" x 48") is the only machine that is available only as “Masso-G3-Touch-powered Elite Series” and not available as “Buildbotis-derived Original Series”.
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
78
Good morning Andy, hey all,
[OT] The image Sean used creates images from the past that make me smile too. It was often on a grey wet German morning, when I had reached cruising speed and no longer had to shift gears on the Autobahn, and placed my left foot to rest to the left, that I suddenly had to say “Ouch!”, that hot air from the hot air outlet on my left foot (coming from the heating via air-to-air exchange exhaust manifolds operating off the engine’s heat), is really, really hot when after a while it fought its way through my thick hiking boots.
Okay the story with the hot air on my foot was not that early as the image suggests, but rather in the 1990s
By the way, did you realize that VW Beetle (I am talking of the Original Series of course, not the UFO) has its driver’s seat not in front of the steering wheel, but more to the left? I think that’s because the VW Beetle is something rather unlogical, it is a “Two-door Sedan”. It’s true! It’s because the car has its nominal width for the passengers only on the back seat. On the first row, the car is tapered forward (this comes into its own in the Mexico cabs, where the co-drivers seat has been removed and the passengers always go straight to the back).
I wish the Autobahn was this empty the few times I have driven in Germany. Of course the space shuttle gaining on a beetle’s small rearview mirror would be disconcerting!
Were all mad though. And I think it helps, especially with intercontinental humour.
1 Like
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
81
Hey Sean,
Recently had to commute 800 kilometers back and forth by car inside Germany. And I can only say, somehow this is war. War in the cozy warmth of SUVs.
Not that you think I want to take you apart, but the images your figurative comparison bring to mind so many thoughts on a wet stormy day in the North today:
But it would have saved neither the Challenger nor the Columbia crew. Unlike every jet-engined fighter with its ejection seats and unlike every spacecraft for human transport before (Soyuz, Mercury, Gemini, Apollo), the Space Shuttle had no post-launch abort system that could save the crew, and even for abort on re-entry there was only either stay in orbit and await being picked up and saved by another spacecraft, or regular re-entry, but the Space Shuttle had a heat shield that could be destroyed by fast foam rubber, and so the burned up parts of the spacecraft and the crew were spread across Texas on Saturday February 1, 2003.
I think the Space Shuttle is a bad example. You wanted to mention something that is high tech and advanced, and therefore well designed. But the way the design of the Space Shuttle ended up being changed and finally realized was a collection of enormous departures from the clever concepts that were in there at the beginning, when it was supposed to be a small glider that would sit at the top of the rocket with the purpose to land people safely home. Instead it became a monster and a misdesign that was supposed to carry monstrously large war satellites into orbit and, as is well shown in the movie “The Challenger Disaster (2013),” ended up carrying a calculated risk of crew death so high that it had to be kept secret. The deaths of the crew of Challenger and Columbia were unnecessary had they built a space glider that was really good for transporting living humans, not for Ronald Reagan’s Star Wars. Don’t forget that Space Shuttle is not high tech but something in the museum
So the comparison is maybe a little unfair towards Masso G3.
Interestingly, the space diary of the first Israeli astronaut in space was found practically intact on the ground in Texas, and was given to his widow.
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
82
Hey Andy,
I also apologize, but I welcome this small opportunity to escape the seriousness of world events and the dryness of the forum topic on a wet German day.
Mad is not an accurate term at all. If the Vulcans would come right now and ask if we can join the Federation of Planets, I would have to answer, ouh, unfortunately no, we still have problems with a unified world government, hunger, equal living rights for all, and besides, we are still busy destroying the planet (but we will get very rich, at least some of us!), and above all we have to kill each other diligently right now. Maybe next century, okay?
I think that’s why some distraction is only understandable…
It seems like you’re trying to decide between two series of a product, the Elite series and the X50 series. Without specific context about what these series refer to, I can provide some general advice on how to make your decision:
Features and Specifications: Compare the features and specifications of both series to see which one aligns better with your needs. Look for factors such as performance, functionality, compatibility, and any unique features that may be important to you.
Reviews and Ratings: Look for reviews and ratings of both series from reputable sources and users who have experience with the products. Pay attention to any common issues or praises mentioned in the reviews that could influence your decision.
Price and Value: Consider the price difference between the two series and evaluate whether the additional features or improvements in the higher-priced series justify the cost for you. Determine which series offers the best value for your budget.
Brand Reputation: Consider the reputation of the brands behind each series. If one brand is known for producing high-quality products with excellent customer support, that may influence your decision.
Long-Term Support: Check the manufacturer’s track record for providing software updates, firmware upgrades, and customer support. A series that receives ongoing support and updates may offer better longevity and value.
Compatibility and Ecosystem: If the series you’re considering is part of a larger ecosystem (e.g., smart home devices, gaming consoles), consider how well it integrates with other products you own or plan to purchase in the future.
Try Before You Buy: If possible, visit a store where you can see and test both series in person. Getting hands-on experience with the products can help you make a more informed decision. But a better idea for you is to book a ride and enjoy.
