Hello Everyone. I want to start by thanking everyone/anyone that takes the time to respond to my broad question here and help me get my head around what it choices to make concerning the new Masso 5.10 firmware and the Easy ATC from onefinity. I don’t want to be too longwinded, but a little background and a snapshot of ‘where I am’ might be of importance:
I got my 1F set up on a custom table and held off on installing the ATC until I felt everything else was working as I needed. After reading through the ATC documentation, I went and drank a beer and tried to deal with the information and sort all the steps. Now after a few days of off-and-on attention, I feel it is installed and almost working as I need. The mechanical part of the ATC seems to be working. I haven’t had any (not once!) misthreading or failed tool changes. The machine reported a “failed tool change” a few times due to my z-height not being correct (no idea how that happened), but the tool was loaded, and wrong z-height was causing the software to throw a false-report of a failure. So now my Question: (finally!)
I saw in the new 5.10 Masso firmware for the G3 Touch that there is a new catagory specifically for the RapidChangeATC. I also noticed that after installing the 5.10 firmware the fields in this had been automatically populated. What I don’t understand is if I need to do anything to “use” this new feature from masso, and what the potential advantages or disadvantages are. Do I have to choose anything? What exactly are these new features of native support? I can’t even tell if it is perhaps already being used? So far I have been using the subroutines to sync pockets on start up, as instructed in Easy ATC documentation. I ran the tool change test gcode program in the subroutines folder, and it went through all the tools (1-4) and then did a manual tool change, and after threw a tool error. I am not certain, but I think it pulled the next tool from my masso tool list (on the G3 Touch list under F4) and then said it can’t find a slot for it. I only have tools 1-5 listed and maybe 3 others with much higher tool numbers (44-50?). I would like to understand what has happened. I am clearly very much in the dark. What I did notice is that an T1 (or Tx, i.e. T3) command seems to solve the tool error… but in the MDI a T1 M06 command doesnt bring any response. (I would have thought it would invoked a tool change).
Those are my ramblings.. can anyone offer some guidance or insight on what the new features in the 5.10 firmware are concerning the Easy ATC? Thank you. Sincerely.
A couple of things come to mind…
Don from RapidChange has created an informative summary of the pros and cons of using Masso’s tool change logic for the Rapidchange vs the subroutines and WebUI. It is in the documents section of the WebUI and worth a read.
I am not aware that Masso prepopulates all the parameters required to use their ATC solution, and regardless, I would carefully read through what they are and populate them yourself once each is determined. They are not all an intuitive like for like copy of those used in the WebUI, so a final confirmation from Don might be worth the effort to reach out to him.
If currently using the WebUI, which is what it appears you are doing, the MDI Txx M06 will not work, as Masso and the WebUI subroutines do not communicate in such a way.
One of the greatest issues I have seen come up in various forums and on Don’s Discord channel has to due with incorrect tool numbering. I believe he is working on a video and FAQ for this. In the meantime, always make sure the Tool numbers that your gcode is calling for match those set in Masso and your WebUI, and that the subroutines are always regenerated to reflect any changes you make.
Thanks for answering. I saw Don’s WebUI reference to the Masso site, along with the explainations, but sadly I didn’t really understand the meanings. The pros and cons listed sounded thourough, but I wasn’t able to apply a meaning to them. I’m assuming that since I wired everything following the onefinity manual, I should just stick to using the subroutines for now. I have only run the load tool, and tool change test subroutines, which all worked fine but never actually run an actual project using the tool changer yet, which I think is part of my problem. I suppose with time I’ll understand this more and more, but right now I feel like I am following instructions more than understanding what is happening - and that feels unsettling. I do appreciate greatly you taking time to respond, and just wanted to express my gratitute. I think more information will be forthcomming from don and the community in the near future and maybe I just need to be more patient. Cheers!
I understand completely how you feel. I purchased my first CNC - Original Woodworker - many years ago when I first started this hobby. I have done a lot and learned a lot since then, but even now, there are some concepts that I regularly need to revisit/reread/rewatch to understand. I built my own setup around a Masso G3 and traditional ATC spindle and have machined many things over the years - given all of that I still hold my breath every time I push Cycle Start 
I agree that as Don has more time, and more new users get setups installed and working, we will see more content that will answer questions and inspire confidence for all like yourself who are still a bit unsure and somewhat apprehensive about how all this works.
I just installed my EasyATC this morning using the native Masso ATC from the 5.1 firmware. I ended up using the wiring diagram for the RapidChange ATC from the Masso documentation so I didn’t use the the jumper wires that came in the package with it. Great that frees up three inputs and three outputs for other things in the future.
Finding the proper setting for the engagement height took a little thought without using the macros from RapidChange but wasn’t difficult. Same with the z heights for the tool check 1 & 2 positions.
Overall, I’m glad I went this route. I know I can’t mix automatic and manual tool changes but that’s ok with me. I only have a couple of jobs that need more than 4 tools so I’ll just break them up into two operations. The reason I decided to go this route is that I didn’t want to use the rapidchange portal to create new macros every time I swapped out the tools. Now it’s just a matter of going into the tool section of the Masso, removing the existing tool/s from the appropriate tools slots and placing a new one in the slot.
Swapping between Manual and Automatic tool changers is now possible without having to keep two version of the nc file and I don’t have to use a different post processor for manual and automatic tool change jobs.
Next, I’m going to build a button panel and include buttons/switches to trigger a macro to swap between Automatic / Manual tool changers. Not really required but that’s part of the fun of having a customizable CNC.
I wired the ATC following Onefinitys instructions. I haven’t used it yet, so if I decide to start with the native Masso, does it have to be wired a different way?
No it doesn’t. When wiring for use with native Masso, you just don’t need the 3 wire pigtail that jumpers between the inputs and outputs. You could leave it in and it wouldn’t make a difference.
I’m using 2 RapidChange ATC tethered together. I got it mostly working with the standard setup documented by Onefinity, however I couldn’t get all 8 pockets to pick up the tools consistently given the inablity to manually specify the pocket coordinates in the WebUI. The RapidChange isn’t very forgiving with the pocket coordinates, and where it’s auto calculated in the WebUI I was left in a position where the first 5-6 tools would pick up and the last 2 or 3 wouldn’t and didn’t have the flexiiblity to manually override the pocket locations
With the Masso 5.10 native support you can specify each pocket location, which is how i fixed my problem and got it working consistently for all 8 pockets. I’ve been running the ATC this way and having tried both ways I actually prefer this way since you don’t need the subroutines and additional folder structure and file management associated with the WebUI and subroutine approach. That being said as stated earlier there are definitely pros and cons as Don has outlined, but with the Masso config I personally find it less complicated and cleaner.
I’d suggest trying it both ways and see which way you like better. For me it’s the native Masso approach. If you go that path you don’t need the wires connecting inputs and outputs 3-5 on the masso, nor do you need to configure them in the Masso F1 screen, (although you could leave the wires in case you switch back to the subroutines at some point in the future). You still will need the input 7 (or whichever input you hooked up the yellow jumper wire up to on the other wiring harness that has the power and ground). However in Masso that will instead be setup as Toolchanger 1 instead of Aux6.
The last thing you’ll want to do in Masso is use RapidChange toolchanger config instead of Linear 2. You’ll enter the coordinates of each pocket but also the top section of that page has some info that will be needed. I spoke to Don and he told me how to get the proper values for those fields by exporting info from the WebUI.
Spindle start Position == Z spin in web UI
Z engage position == z=engage in web UI
Retorque count: set to 1
Tool check-1 Z position == Zone 1 in web UI
Tool check-2 Z position: == Zone 2 in web UI
You don’t need to set everything up in the WebUI to get these values. …you basically just need to identify the proper Z value and enter that in the Web UI, then go to the gear icon and select the “view profile details” to get the few values that you need for the masso rapidchange config screen. There’s probably a way to just calculate the values doing some math using the Z position and not needing to reference the WebUI, however I didn’t spend too much time trying to figure that out so I just enter the Z in WebUI and grab the values it spits out on the “view profile details” UI.
Thank you! This makes a lot of sense to me, and answered a few question I wasn’t able to formulate properly. If it helps anyone else, it is also CRUTIAL to make sure to switch to the proper post-processor depending on if you are using the masso or the onefinity wiring etc.
Thanks again for taking time to help!
That’s a great point…i forgot to mention that in addition to what i listed above, if using the subroutines you need a special post processor vs with the masso 5.10 config you use the regular onefinity post processor
Just used your “template” to set up a dual 4 lane setup. Had a hell of a time getting the determine z macro pos to run, as it is key to getting the rest of the numbers, so had to set it up as rapidchange expected. I was initially confused as this is 8 tool, and should require 4 aux inputs to use, ie 2-3-4-5 on in/out, and 6? for the ir sensor, but don’t set it up as you intend to use it, as I think the macro’s are hardcoded to expect standard setup, ie only aux 2,3,4 in/out & 5 as ir sensor. Once I did that, it worked to get my machine z position from the macro.
If you’re using the Rapidchange subroutines then yes you’ll need an extra wire connecting input/output 6 if you’re using 2x Rapidchange ATCs tethered together. If using just a single 4 pocket ATC then the input/output 6 wire isn’t required. And of course if you’re using the Masso 5.10 setup then none of those wires are required since you’re using Toolchanger 1 in Masso instead of configuring all the Aux inputs and outputs.
When I did the setup for Masso 5.10 i didn’t bother with the FindZ subroutine. I simply manually raided the Z slowly until the IR light triggered and recorded the machine Z coordinate. So you don’t really need the Rapidchange subroutines or WebUI at all if you go the masso route – except the WebUI for calculating some of the Z values that the Masso config needs. At some point I may ask don or try to figure out for myself how those calculations work because there’s only a few of them and seems unnecessary to use the WebUI at all if going down this path. For now though that’s what i did…just manually got the Z and let the WebUI tell me the several Z values to enter in Masso
You’re absolutely correct about the FindZ alternative, I did that initially to spitball the approach, and found it gave the same result within a half mm. As for the wiring, yeah, I dumped it all, and am using the inputs for something else (water chiller alarm), so reclaimed space was good. As for the limitations, not having to have special stuff in Fusion360 and having to maintain on changes was more of a limitation for me, simple old M6 commands will do me just fine. I was able also to map out the exact locations of all the pockets, as I tried to be very diligent with the pin locations and tolerences, but ended up with a bit of wandering (pocket variances, a bit of skew, idk). Anyways, the first attempts after mapping, every pocket worked first time.
As an additional side note, I got the free dust boot from Onefinity as part of easy atc, and I have to say that is sooooo much better than any one I haven’t made myself. It works very well over the ATC pockets and tool probe, and had zero issues. I did go back and tweaked my bit depths to make them closer from tall to short, as if you don’t want to screw with the dust boot height, you’ll probably want them all within 10mm zheight differences. I only had one that exceeded it, a big 1/2” square bit.
The standard height for the ER32 collet nut is 22.5mm. The value is actually the height of the collet nut added to the z-height I think. (within half a mm)