80mm spindle and VFD choices

Hey Kelly,

regarding power, more of it means higher speed to achieve the work. Once you will cease to work and instead watch your “robot” doing the work for you, the more you may want it to become faster. More power also means more torque at low speed.

Once the 80 mm spindle holder was out I ordered it and I came accross the question
whether to buy a 2.2 kW spindle with ER16 or with ER20 collet. The first takes tool shanks from 1-10 mm and the latter from 1-13 mm, which would mean half-inch tools. But since at first I did not expect to use tools larger than 8 mm, I was unsure. I asked the manufacturer and he answered, the spindle with ER20 collet has larger bearings and a stiffier shaft. Larger bearings means longer life. Stiffier shaft means more precision. Also one should take into consideration that when using tools with a larger shank, the thicker the shank the stiffier the tool and so the longer the tools you can use – and thus the deeper the pockets you can mill into your workpiece. So I went for the ER20 spindle.

I agree.

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Could the 5.5 lbs difference be because one spindle has an ATC, and the other doesn’t?

Hey Steve,

haven’t seen Huanyang spindles with Automatic Tool Changer system yet. But Some of theses Spindle Packages that include a spindle, a VFD, a Spindle Mount and a Water Pump have a weight of 18.86 lbs, so maybe it’s a mistake? We should ask the creator of Spindle weight too much topic. My spindle has no ATC and weighs 4,8 kg (10.58 lbs).

Anyway a spindle with Automatic Tool Changing system may well be weighing 9 kg (19.84 lbs).

Would be interested in knowing how the Onefinity’s Z Axis mount deals with this

I swapped over the spindle mount and installed my 2.2kW spindle. I still have some work to do setting up the case the VFD and other stuff is mounted in but I did move the Z axis manually and it moves with almost no force what so ever. I know some people are talking about replacing the Z stepper with a more powerful one but I can’t see it being worthwhile. After all if the current motor was struggling it would draw too much current. If I’m not mistaken that would trip the controller (just like homing) long before the motor would be damaged.

Hopefully tomorrow night I’ll get time to connect the water lines to the spindle and rout the wires. Peter, I have a manifold for the water at the left rear of the table and dust collection on the right side. I’m not sure if your boom would work as I have a 1hp dust collector mounted to the ceiling. I also need to get a new spoilboard at some point as the piece I have is wide enough for the 48" journeyman but not long enough. I’ll use it for now though.

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Alex, I am excited for your setup and to see what items you make!! You are correct that my hose boom does need to have the water lines, electrical cord and vacuum hose going to the same corner. Let us know the direction you end up going!

Funny thing is that I started this thread because I initially thought you needed at least an 80mm mount to get a 1.5kw spindle. However, I see that 65mm, 110v, air-cooled spindles with VFD’s are available. My biggest reason for wanting a spindle over the router is purely for noise. I simply cannot stand the high-pitched whine of the router. Is there any significant reason I should go with an 80mm diameter version? I am just a hobby woodworker, not making money, it’ll see 40-50 hours per month tops, and just in wood.

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Hey Timothy,

As far as I know with 65 mm you are limited to ER11 collet then, which would mean 7 or 8 mm tool shank maximum. But it should be okay for many work.

My other thoughts you probably read above.

The reason why I went for a larger spindle is intended professional use

I know that the 80mm 1.5kw are either ER11 or ER16 but both max out at 1/4" for us in terms of the CNC we buy. It’s only the bigger 2.2kw models that I’ve seen go up to ER20, allowing for 1/2" bits. However I have no established collection of bits and again, as a hobby woodworker, non-professional I think that I’ll be fine maxing out at 1/4" bits.

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I’m moving up to a 2.2kw/80mm spindle for the ER20 collet and 1/2" bits - but really it’s just because I can. For hobby woodworking (my use case), the 1.5kw/65mm spindle and 1/4" bits will work great. I have an 800w spindle, and don’t have any trouble with 1/4" bits at all.

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Would you please tell us how you find the 2.2 ow. Cheers

Received our 2.2 kw spindle but it was defective. The replacement is on the way and I will post results when it’s up and running.

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Hello All, I continue my search for a UK vendor of a spindle/VFD. I’m considering air-cooled 2.2kw (seem less trouble than water-cooled ). The vendor asked me a question when I quizzed them on my thoughts on using their 2.2kw 80mm spin/VFD. Can someone help me with a reply?

They asked me: “What happens on the z when power down? Is there a dc brake on the stepper”.

Presumably to hold the weight of the spindle on close down, but the first time I’ve come across this question.

No brake but I’ve never had my 80mm water cooled spindle drop once the power is off.

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From what I have seen in some of the other forums I follow, this seems to be more of an issue with commercial/industrial CNCs where the Z axis spindle and gantry together have a mass often 10+X that of the Onefinity. Solutions ranged from expensive (stepper with brake, gas struts) to inexpensive (mounting a piece of ‘cutting board-like’ plastic to push and add friction to the ball screw). I think that others with 80mm spindles, like @Dr-Al, would certainly have brought this up in the forum had they experienced this issue.

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Hi all,

I’m researching VFD’s and Spindles and could do with some technical assistance.
I was looking at Huanyang VFD’s and noticed that there are two types - HY and GT series. The HY type is what most people appear to have but the GT type has Sensorless Vector Control (SVC). I understand that this helps to provide higher torque at low speeds (better control?), which may be useful when working with Aluminium. What I want to know is:

  1. Is my basic understanding of SVC correct?
  2. Is SVC compatible with the Onefinity controller?
  3. If so is the VFD setup different to the normal HY VFD setup guide?
  4. Is SVC of any use in the hobby wood/Aluminium CNC world?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.
Live long and prosper.

Lee

From the research I did, my impression is that Sensorless Vector Control allows the VFD to adjust current to maximize the torque needed to get the spindle to stay at it’s desired speed. Without SVC, a VFD only manipulates the frequency of the signal. The spindles drop off in torque as the speed goes down - so I do think SVC is more helpful at lower speeds.

There’s no compatibility issues between the 1f and VFD related to SVC directly - it’s only a VFD setting issue. As long as the VFD follows the same RS-435 protocol the 1F is expecting, it will work fine.

I picked up a Hitachi VFD instead of the GT series HY. The main difference in setup was that there was a step to “train in” the SVC parameters for the spindle.

“Is SVC of any use” is a harder question to answer. For most cutting tasks in wood a 2.2kw spindle is only using a fraction of it’s available power. My impression is that SVC is most beneficial at higher torque tasks (big bits), and at lower speeds (where torque is compromised).

I don’t have the benefit of a before/after comparison - when on 65mm I had a 800w spindle and a “plain” VFD. When I jumped to 80mm and 2.2kw I also went to a SVC capable VFD - too many things all changing at once to draw any real conclusions.

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Mike, I am not clear from your post here. From your research did you believe the HY VFD would not support SVC at all?
Thanks for the help.

That’s correct, it is my understanding that the HY VFDs do not support SVC.

Lots of people use them, I just think SVC is a slightly better option. Probably more important for slower spindle speeds.

Maybe for metal work but for wood I don’t think it’s an issue. People use 3hp routers with large raised panel bits. Lots of those routers have very basic speed control. With a large bit you set the router as slow as you can. Long before running out of power you’ll start doing damage to the wood if you try to go too fast or take too big of a bite.

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I’ve been following all this spindle talk BEFORE I got my Onefinity. When I got mine, I went with the Makita router as I was learning. I found in speeds and feeds, that 12,000 to 17,000 was most common which is 2 or 3 on the Makita. At that speed, I find the noise of the Makita to be quite acceptable. It is only at faster speeds that it drives me nuts. Right now, I’m planning on staying with Makita.

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