I have read that the 800W spindles may be a bit underpowered for some applications. However, it seems that the primary concern might be the size of the spindle, 65mm vs. 80mm. It seems that few, if any, 65mm spindles are capable of accepting larger collets. This limits the bits you are able to use. In addition to the exciting new information from Onefinity about the upgraded Z mount, they said they will also be working on an 80mm mounting option after the pre-order shipments are done. I may be tempted to grab the Makita router to get my feet wet and get an 80mm spindle on hand for when the larger mount becomes available.
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My thoughts exactly!
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I agree, i did pull the trigger on the Makita and it is sitting here waiting. I am sure I will find plenty to do with it once I move to the 80mm mount and spindle.
I like this Makita learn-before-you-earn using a 2.2kW 80mm spindle thinking. Smaller shanks=smaller bits=smaller opps!
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I have bought several of the Huanyang VFD/Spindle kits that are linked to from Amazon and Ebay. Here are a couple of things that may not be obvious that you need to be aware of. The genuine Huanyang version of the VFD has worked flawlessly for me for years. I have not had any issues with any of the others that I have put on custom cnc builds either.
There are some look alikes to watch out for. They are cheaper but I would be cautions. Two ways to easily spot a counterfeit are: #1 Lack of a speed control dial on the front panel. There is a place for it but it is missing. #2 under the hood, you should have two rows of greens crew terminals for wire connections not just 1.
Some of the kits come with a complete collet set. Only problem is they are metric. Some will say that they are close enough for imperial bits. I say not necessarily. Spend the extra and get a set of imperial collets. You probably wonāt use them all but for the price it is worth the knowledge that you are now a bad ass and can use just about any bit out there!
https://www.amazon.com/KIPA-Precision-Workholding-Engraving-machines/dp/B07BDG4D9T/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2DA9VPUWJWNQZ&dchild=1&keywords=er20+collet+set&qid=1597147493&s=hi&sprefix=ER20%2Ctools%2C181&sr=1-2
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The 2.2 KW spindle uses ER20 Collets and the 1.5KW Uses ER11āsā¦ Sorry about the confusion.
Possible non related question, but I see most of this thread talking about upgrading to water-cooled spindles, but no one really talks about air cooled spindles. 2.2kw Air cooled spindle vs 2.2kw huanyang water cooled spindle. If both are 2.2kw (er20 collets), what is the big difference between the two (other than the obviousā¦) is one louder than the other? the only other difference i can see is that the air cooled one is almost always 220v, whereas the water cooled one is usually 110vā¦
Seems to me that both need a VFD, both need some kind of cooling (air or water), and once you to the collet - both are essentially the same. Are there other benefits of the water cooled ones over air cooled? Does anyone have any experience theyād like to share?
If you consider Youtube results as a factor at all - if you search for either - there are many many more results about water cooled spindles and almost none about air cooled. personally, it feels like air would be less damaging in event of failure, since water and wood never play well together, but thatās just me.
Air cooled had the advantage of not having to maintain a water cooling system(risk of leaks, checking for bacteria growth in the water, etc.). Air cooled uses a fan, which can blow dust around. Water cooled wonāt have that issue.
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I have a 2.2kw water cooled spindle on my other cnc. I have been using it for over t years and it works as good today as it did new. As for bacteria, I use automotive antifreeze in the water. It has antibacterial properties as well as anticorrosive properties. I havenāt changed it yet. I keep it in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it with holes for the water/ power lines. Oh yes, not one single leak in two+ years. It can run all day long and never get above room temperature.
Iām sure that there are those that have a air cooled spindle and swear by them. For me though, water cooled 2.2kw is the way to go.
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Iāve done a little bit of research, @mkngjoy and that (with my experience working in the brushless DC motor world) has lead me to a couple conclusions. I have zero experience with CNC spindles as replacements for brushed-routers, but I do have experience with liquid-cooled and natural-convection/conduction-cooled spindles that are used in machine tools, test equipment, etc.
First - It seems air-cooled spindles use a fan attached to the motor shaft which blows air down through channels built into the housing of the spindle. Running the spindle at different speeds would change the air flow and cooling ability. If you find yourself running the spindle across a wide range of speeds, you may find the cooling performance will change, maybe dramatically.
Second - Air is likely drawn in from the top and blown down and out towards the chuck/bit area. I wonder if this affects the performance of the dust boot? It would certainly churn up the air around the bit. Could be a positive effect, keeping the bit free of chips, could be a negative effect by stirring more dust into the air, bypassing the dust boot effectiveness potentially. Iād love to hear someoneās personal experience with this!
Third - By the very fact that air is drawn into the spindle, dust and moisture will also be drawn in. May require more frequent cleaning/maintenance unless the air quality into the spindle is maintained.
Fourth - Iām sure the spindle is balanced at the factory, before shipment. Over time, the fan blades could begin to accumulate dust/debris/oil/etc from the air. If thatās not evenly distributed on the blades, you could begin to see slight imbalances in the spindle rotation which could manifest as increased runout, higher machine vibration or maybe just louder spindle operation. This is probably not a major concern - I donāt think youād get so much accumulation to actually throw the CNC performance out very much.
Fifth - liquids are way better at transferring heat than air, so my guess is you could run a liquid-cooled spindle longer and/or at higher continuous cutting loads than an air-cooled spindle. If youāre running a few hours a day, this probably isnāt an issue. If youāre running all-day, production-type cuts, then the watercooled spindle would likely perform better here.
Sixth - overall cost and maintenance will come into play Iād bet. Maintaining a water-cooled system with a pump, coolant bucket, coolant hoses and such would likely cost a bit more. If the above advantages are worth the effort for using a liquid-cooled, I would think you would want to invest in a quality pump and coolant-carrying hoses and such. If the coolant pump fails, or a leak develops while youāre not paying attention, I donāt know if these motors offer thermal protection to shut the spindle down. And I reckon thereās no input to the CNC controller to alert it of a thermal shutdown. This would be a risk worth thinking about at least.
Just some food for thought!
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A bit more than just food - more like a 6 course meal. Thanks for the feedback / answer. I hope it helps someone, it sure has given me a lot to think about.
At this point in my journey - Iāll probably only go to water cooled if the noise becomes a factor. going to air-cooled will probably only happen if I get a 4āx8ā and it happens to come with an air-cooled 8hp spindleā¦ But at the same time, on the Onefinityā¦ if I go to a spindle, Iāll have the VFD, at which point it might be worthwhile (for everyone here, of course) to do a head-to-head test with water vs airā¦ who knows?
Has anyone bought from Stepper online? They seem to be cheaper than buying kits from Amazon. Guess the biggest drawback is no 2 day shipping from China.
@USF_TIM these prices are good, but be aware that most of their motors are 80mm in diameter, not 65mm. The Onefinity currently accepts 65mm only, though they are working on an 80mm mount for future release if I recall.
This is a 80mm motor,
- Manufacturer Part Number: GDZ80F-1.5A4
- Material: Stainless steel
- Size: Ć80x195(Middle body diameter: 80 mm, Length:195 mm)
- Power: 1.5 KW
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Yes, I plan on installing a spindle instead of the Makita Router. The main reason I am doing this is because of a noise issue. I want to keep things as quiet as possible. I realize that there will be quite a bit of noise while cutting but at least there wonāt be the loud whine of the router. My 1F isnāt supposed to get here until January 2021 but I went ahead and ordered the spindle. I ordered the same one that Ben Meyers showed on his video. I ordered it on Amazon.
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Hi,
Iāve attached a word document that will hopefully explain some of the differences and abilities of the Makita router and a 65mm spindle. At a minimum, it will help you understand the speed and feed restrictions you face or can use with your Makita router.Route and Spindle.pdf (123.2 KB)
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Thank you, Richard. That was tremendously helpful!!!
I plan to burn out the Makita brushes once, and then go to air-cooled spindle.
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Very well written and I couldnāt agree more with your conclusions. Unless I just missed it, one thing you didnāt mention is that you can control spindle on/off and rpm within your gcode. You can control router on and off via gcode as well by rpm control of a router is possible, it is unlikely that anyone will go to the trouble of modifying their router to achieve that ability. Itās a 2.5KW 110VAC water cooled system on my old cnc. Been running it for years without issue. Also a HY VFD like yours. Oh, and the noise produced by a spindle is night and day difference to the noise of a router. Fare less noise with a spindle motor th at is.
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