I am considering the elite upgrade from an original X50 from 3 years ago. In this kit I bought the XBox remote for jogging control. I understand the Masso doesn’t currently support the controller, but is there any plans to support it in the future? Is it even possible for the Masso controller to receive the wireless signal, or will it simply never be supported?
I know that it comes with it’s own jogging control, I’m just wondering if when I upgrade whether I should keep the remote for future support, or if I should include it in the parts return for a few extra dollars if it’ll just be sitting on the shelf.
Another question in the same vein, I also have the original 3 axis touch probe, does this still plug in and work with the Masso controller, or will I also need to upgrade to the easy-Z tool setter for the elite? Is it preferred to use the elite easy-Z tool setter even if the old one works as well?
Next question, when ordering a Z20 with the elite upgrade, does it also include a 4th elite closed loop stepper? Does it include the brake?
Last question, since the elite upgrades are somewhat custom on a per-user basis, should I contact sales to discuss custom pricing around what I will or won’t be returning or is that all handled and adjusted after I do the elite upgrade order and before it’s charged?
I haven’t seen any indication that Onefinity will give you any money for your XBox controller. The Masso controller doesn’t come with a jogging controller. It’s a separate purchase directly from Masso. The touch probe will work with the new controller. A tool setter is not the same as a touch probe. The Z-20 upgrade includes a stepper but does not include the braking stepper. The braking stepper is an extra purchase which can be found on the Replacement Parts menu.
Unfortunately amazon.ca only has the 220v chillers available, so it may be a while before I can obtain this 120v version as it’s not in stock. Does anyone know if another decently priced option easily available from a reputable Canadian seller (even better if it’s on amazon.ca)?
I am also curious about 220v spindle options, it doesn’t seem like getting my hands on a Mechatron is going to be financially viable right now, so I found what I believe to be genuine HuanYang direct from the company on Amazon.ca here:
Most research suggests the genuine HuanYang VFD and Spindles are a decent option, with good runout and quality bearings (not ceramic, but still decent quality quad bearings). But are there any other higher quality spindles and VFD’s readily available in Canada? I hear good things about Fiji VFD’s but I couldn’t find them anywhere.
Thanks for your time.
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
93
Hey Shane,
Huanyang HY Series don’t even support sensorless vector control. It’s just chinese crap with Huanyang printed on it (also available without Huanyang printed on it). If you want a good VFD (which will pull out most of the performance out of a spindle), buy a Omron MX2, Hitachi WJ200 or Invertek (Made in UK).
Thank you for the information, after a bit more reading you sold me on the Omron MX2 or Hitachi WJ200, more specifically I think I’m looking for the WJ200-022SF as I have a 240v single phase circuit dedicated for this spindle upgrade.
The price is a bit higher, and sourcing it may become difficult, I will keep looking but at least there is one option in the US that’ll cost me about $500 USD total with $80 in shipping, this is in an acceptable reasonable price range for me. Anyone know of alternatives to purchase this VFD friendlier for Canadians?
I ordered my WJ200 Hitachi from Drives warehouse in 2022. At that time the VFD was $338 US. I bought it and the OPE keypad, and with $75 US shipping (I really do not like UPS) the total was under $500 US. UPS charges a fortune for fees into Canada, so although I do not remember that amount, it was a lot I am sure. Still, that was the best price for all these things I could find for a Canadian.
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Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
96
Hey Shane,
in any case if your budget is limited, I would spend more money on the VFD than on the spindle. The spindle will be gone one day, as it will accumulate dust in the bearings (except if you have one with sealing air), it is subject to wear, but the VFD is there to stay. And the more smart and sophisticated the algorithms inside the VFDs are, the more performance will you get out of the spindle.
The Omron MX2 (that I bought) is identical to the Hitachi WJ200 except that the Omron can deliver 580 Hz for speeds higher than 24,000 rpm. I bought the matching filter and the brake resistor with it as a bundle here.
While I was tempted to get a chiller, I built my own for ~$100:
Transmission oil cooler $33
PC fan x 2 $20
Inline flow meter with temp and flow volume readings $50.
Add $10 if I didn’t have a sealable 2qt food container
You can add the cost of the pump or not since I needed it for the water cooled spindle whether or not I bought/made a chiller even if just using the venerable YouTube 5 gallon bucket chiller.
Seems like the vevor one at $250 would be worth it if it had an active cooler instead of a passive radiator.
FWIW my diy version keeps it about 8-10°C over ambient.
Thank you for that information, I’ve done some searching and have come to a similar conclusion, I’ll probably just buy it from driveswarehouse as well, prices haven’t changed all that much.
Does the WJ200 require constant current at 24amps? I am a little concerned about it. Might have to make some power source adjustments if my current 240v 20a circuit isn’t sufficient when paired with the 2.2kw HY spindle rated for 8amps.
I originally build my own little reservoir tank out of a cheap plastic aquarium, shoved the cheap pump in there with 50/50 coolant and threw an inline spinning flow gauge on the line, it served it’s purpose well enough.
However, I have built a whole enclosed cabinet and I think it’s time to upgrade to a more self contained unit that I can bolt in place in the otherwise mobile cabinet. Even just having all the parts in one unit is worth the extra money to me, but I will have some modifications to change out at least the input/output fittings for my size of tubing.
Yeah, I usually either buy or build quality. I was so excited to get my new (last years pwncnc Memorial Day sale) cnc spindle running I super MacGyver’d cooling system and mounting drag chains.
I had grand plans to build a cooling system with a peltier cooling boost with a pid controller in a real case. Nope. Been it is excess tubing monstrosity for over a year now.
Yeah I’m right there with you. I was even considering the Mechatron spindle this time around but I can’t afford the 1000 euro’s right now, so I’ll just get the cheaper HY and look at it down the road. Just bit the bullet on the Hitachi VFD though.
But for cooling, I just can’t keep going with this crappy setup anymore, even the lid for the aquarium is like this plastic crap that I had to tape the hose into, it’s the worst setup imaginable. But like yourself, it kept me just over ambient most of the time.
I don’t expect these CW-3000 chillers to do much more in terms of temperature or I’d be looking at the CW-5200’s, I just think that the pump used (which is $100 on it’s own) is a lot better than what I’ve been working with, the addition of the sensor and the plug to connect to it gives me ideas about feeding it back to the VFD. I’m also thinking of removing the power switch and replacing it with a signal from the VFD for coolant enable/disable (or just passing it through my IOT switch used for the dust collector). All that is easier with the unit ready made. I had a really hard time finding a suitable reservoir container that didn’t blow out the budget in a DIY project.
I know some people have been picking up 360mm PC CPU radiators and rigging something up to those, but I wouldn’t trust the pumps in them for my scenario.
I tend to follow the manufacturer’s guidelines, and did so in this case as well, as well as what my research showed to be best practices for such installations. The included image shows my wall mounted components: main shut off, 10 AWG cord to VFD enclosure (with 30A breakers) , and safety start switch.
I found several of Clough42’s YT videos helpful (ATC build series), as he has the same VFD, and shows how he built the enclosure and programmed the VFD.
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
103
Hey Shane,
No, but it this is what it can draw depending on spindle and mechanical load. This VFD can deliver up to 11 A per phase to the spindle in constant duty (S1) mode. In the manual (Hitachi WJ200 / Omron MX2), a 30 A fuse is recommended for its single-phase 200 V class input.
That’s what I thought, as far as constant current but I wanted to make sure I wasn’t mixing up my electrical theory.
Based on a 3 phase spindle rated for 8a, without repeating the math, and assuming the same efficiency, it should be about 13-15a draw at 220-240v, let’s call it 16a for good measure… then my 20a 220v circuit should be sufficient, and my existing wiring should suffice as well. However if or when I look to upgrade to a Mechatron spindle, I’ll keep in mind upgrading to handle 30a.
Does the WJ200 have an actual input load register to view the input current load live? Even better if I can set an alarm or auto stop when exceeding 20a input to the VFD. I’d only ever expect to even come close to the 24a full load if I was using a 10-11a rated spindle and under heavier cutting loads. I’ll be cutting mostly wood (including hardwoods), and the occasional corner rounding for dibond material (a plastic core squished by 2 thin aluminum layers).
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
105
Hey Shane,
you can make the output current per phase that is delivered to the spindle visible on the display by a setting, but for measuring the input current of the VFD you usually use an external ampèremeter at the input.
I would connect a VFD only to a supply circuit as recommended in the datasheet / manual. I have a 32 A supply line here for the single-phase input of my VFD.
The current draw of the VFD varies a lot depending on the mechanical load that you put on the spindle.
Here in Europe, you could also buy the 400 V three-phase input version of the VFD, as we have 400 V three-phase everywhere here (in fact our 230 V are simply one phase between Lx and N), in this case the current in each of the individual of the three input lines is of course much smaller, so wire and fuse can be weaker then (see table).
The 200 V three-phase input version is for North American three-phase current (120/207 V), but this is not usually found in domestic areas, where you have 120/240 V split-phase electricity.
I’ll be stuck using the single phase 220v US style, and it’s looking like I’ll probably have to upgrade my wiring and the breaker. The power socket I wired is also only rated for 20a (NEMA 6-20R), so it may be a bit more complicated rewiring job.
One option is to swap the socket out for a NEMA 6-30R (the line from subpanel to socket is using overkill tech wire from an industrial mill already, rated for 100a or 200a I can’t remember). If I follow the existing wiring plan, I’d then have a 6-30R at the wall, a short 4 foot run to the socket on the cabinet requiring a different plug on both ends (6-30P to 6-30R), another 6-30P socket on the cabinet, and then another ~8 foot 10awg run to the VFD mounting location. That’s looking like about $100 for wire, and about $100 for the sockets, and about $50 for the new breaker, and about $60 for a 30a shutoff switch. All in roughly $300 for the rewiring, which isn’t too bad but after seeing TMToronto’s setup it got me thinking.
Second option then, would be to mount the VFD near the subpanel, remove the 6-20R socket completely, and wire directly from the 30a breaker to the VFD (through the 30a shutoff switch). Then the 10awg run is very short, split into a couple 2 foot runs to the VFD, and then the longer run into the cabinet whether or not I include a socket at the cabinet wall is a cheaper run carrying only 11a max on each line, for that I could get away with a run of 14awg (or even 16awg at 10amp, since my spindle will only take 8a to it) but I’ll have to find a shielded 4 conductor line with some softer insulation to run through drag chains. The problem with this approach is now the VFD is far from the controller and I’d have to run a pretty long line back out of the cabinet to the VFD for the modbus and any alarm lines. However, a single ethernet line gives me 4 pairs
(8 lines) which is plenty for modbus, cooler switch, and cooler alarm. There may not be anything else I need to run to the VFD, so this remains an option.
Currently I am still leaning towards the VFD inside the cabinet with a more expensive 10awg run, primarily to keep the whole system self contained and not have additional signal lines coming back out.
I am in the process of cleaning out the cabinet (don’t ask), once that’s done I’ll take a few pictures and maybe solicit some further ideas from you guys for the best way to rewire for this higher current need. For what it’s worth y’all already twisted my rubber arm and I bought the WJ200 it’s on the way. So I am committed to the rewiring one way or another now
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Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
107
Hey Shane,
I think it is better to make the spindle cable rather short and the VFD power supply cable longer. I use 10 m of 2+PE × 4,0 mm² cable for the input cable from a IEC 60309 socket:
I’m a little confused about the spindle cable. My current cable says 0.75mm2, when I look this up it says 6amps, but then when I convert to awg, it says that’s 18awg. And 18awg is what pwncnc is selling for their cables, so I’m a bit confused on what awg is needed for the spindle line. Assuming 11a max, but 8a configured, I assumed I would need 16awg to do 8a, or 14awg for 11a max current.
Based on your 2.5mm2, that sounds like about 13awg, so I guess I’m looking for 14awg which is what I thought, not 18awg… And then the rest of the links seem to guide to 16awg… I may just be forced to buy the best 14/4 shielded I can get my hands on and fortunately the spindle comes with the plug to wire it.
Aiph5u
(Aiph5u (not affiliated with Onefinity))
109
Hey Shane,
if you follow the links above, you will find a table for wire strength to be used, taken from the VFD manual. As the Hitachi WJ200 / Omron MX2 are VFDs for industrial use, the wire is sized according to industrial standards.
Of course you could use weaker cables, in this case their electrical loss is higher and they produce more heat.
