Would you buy 1F again

Hey Nick,

you are right, that is strange too. I have a controller here in my electronics lab and it is connected over network to any computer where I could be here (without the CNC machine attached to the controller) so I just tested it (see screenshots below). What it should do (what one would expect) is that it just drives the carriages to their home positions, performs stall homing (as set in the corresponding MOTORS page) and adjusts the values in the ‘position’ column of CONTROL page, but not the ‘offsets’. So I was wrong with what I wrote above. I find that strange.

Note that I am not using the Onefinity controller and don’t plan to use it on my Onefinity as I intend to use another controller. I am just fascinated about the buildbotics.com project and am sometimes exploring the Onefinity controller that is a software and hardware fork of the Buildbotics controller.

But I wrote frequently in the forum that stall homing is unreliable, because it never ends the homing process at exactly the same positions as before. It is more of a makeshift solution for homing because the manufacturer wanted to keep the price low and saved on everything, which means here on hardware limit sensors.

So what I frequently wrote, is that one should always avoid homing procedure (except once at startup – but only if you don’t have a machine position that you want to retain after a power loss),

and instead use G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0

in the MDI tab or in a g-code program, to drive to the home position. This really does only the movement to the registered home coordinates, without the bumping of stall homing. ‘G53’ means “move in machine coordinates”, without altering any stored values (except absolute position of course). (Note: G53 is, unlike G54-59, G52 and G92, no modal command, which means it has to be given everytime before a motion command like G0 or G1). ‘G0’ means “move rapidly, ignoring feedrate”.

This is also the command I use for driving to the home position for a manual tool change ➪ in my own ‘tool-change’ routine.


Screenshots


Image 1: To avoid: The Homing Buttons (on top: home all axes, below are buttons for homing each axis individually)


Image 2: Moving the axes to X=100 mm, Y=100 mm, and Z=-50 mm, and then zeroing this position as offset (workpiece zero) (using G92)


Image 3: After homing all axes, not only the ‘Absolute’ positions are homed, but also the ‘offsets’ previously made active with  G0 X100 Y100 Z-50  and then  G92 X0 Y0 Z0  are gone.

YES! About 3 mos. ago I got an X50-woodworker machine. This was an upgrade from an old X-Carve 1000 that worked very well for me in a sometimes used sometimes ignored hobby shop environment.
I really like the accuracy and cut rate of the ball screw drive. The X-50 is super robust for either commercial or hobby use. I didn’t get the Elite as, an old forgetful guy, I really appreciate that little pop up window on the standard controller that gives you time make sure all is clear, secure, and turned on. The pro Masso controller on the Elite takes no prisoners when you press start.
I’ve had no need for tech support yet, the machine was easy to assemble, wire up, and get test cutting. I got the package that has the Joystick, zeroing block, and one year of free Carveco Maker. There are many tutorials on Carveco Maker and I’ve imported my designs from AutoCad and Fusion 360 with no problems.
I really enjoy my X-50, no regrets, and the ability to upgrade it to an Elite is a nice carrot out there.
Now I need to get the beefier Z axis carriage so I can use my water cooled spindle that used to be on my X-Carve.
Get the X-50!

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Okay! Lol. Thank you for your input and thoughts. The wife last night suggested I get the Elite. Very tempted but only using the cnc on the weekends I’m wondering if I would take advantage of the Elite. Kinda like having a Lamborghini where the max speed limits only 40mph. Lol

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One thing nice about the Elite is if you are nervous about hitting the start button and things happening real fast you can slow the feed rate to near zero before hitting the start button and speed it up as things progress.
Pat

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Do the elite, not a lambo in the suburbs, more like a comfortable Cadillac when you are stuck in traffic. It will make using the machine nicer when you do use it. Spindle vs router i think is more of a heavy usage debate :slight_smile:

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You can also set up the Dry Run Laser Pointer option to double check your toolpath travel/containment prior to machining.

TMToronto would that be an extra cost? I don’t want to spend money to spend I screwed up with my last purchase. One of the things leading me to Onefiniity is the ability to upgrade down the road

It is not an extra cost, unless you want to buy a laser pointer.

I bought a 4 pack of cross hair laser pointers online for about $25CA and printed a holder for it that attaches to the spindle mount. It needs a small power supply and a relay connected to a Masso TTL output.

I have not tried this, but I believe the functionality would also work without an actual connected laser pointer. You could set it up as per Masso’s instructions but use the endmill instead of a laser as a reference point. When you select Dry Run Laser it should move the endmill along the toolpath.

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The thing about dry run or slowing the feed way down is that this will be a very temporary condition, as you gain experience you will not be doing this on a regular basis.
Pat

I am sure. I do like the idea of controlling cut speed on the fly. It is kinda a pain to start a cut and realize you need to speed up or slow down cut speeds. Also, spindle auto on and off.

There are many nice things about the Elite / Masso, spindle speed during run, spindle and vacuum auto on and off right out of the box, no DIY project here.
Pat

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Agreed, and the software updates being phased in now have some great enhancements to an already quite capable controller, particularly one that is not PC based.

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Hey Kevin,

of course you have automatic spindle/router on and off on the buildbotics-derived Onefinity Controller too (1. spindle is controlled over Modbus 2. for router you buy the IoT relay (FAQ) that is activated by Tool-enable (pin 15)), so no advantage for the Elite Masso. Modbus control over a two-wire serial communication line on the buildbotics is even better because you really send digital data (spindle rpm exactly as specified, e.g. “18 500 rpm”, while with the Masso, you only use a 0–10 V analog voltage wire to control spindle rpm).

But adjusting feed rate on the fly is the most-missed feature on the buildbotics.

Also what I like is the variety of probes you can use and the many ways to probe a workpiece on the Masso.

Also there is out-of-the-box support for a toolsetter on the Masso.

I tend to agree with the others to take the Onefinity Elite, if you can afford it, and take Daniel’s @PwnCNC VFD/spindle kit as it is the only ready-to-use spindle kit I know (DISCLAIMER: I have no personal experience with this VFD/spindle kit), so this means spindle as plug and play.

BUT please be aware that the problems I linked above (lack of shielding on all stepper cables, general susceptibility to EMI causing step losses (also on Elite), unreliable connectors, missing or too small drag chains, etc.) apply to both Elite Masso G3 Series and Original X-35/X-50 Series with buildbotics-derived Onefinity Controller.

Also it is a matter of price and budget. If you compare

  • Onefinity Woodworker X-50 (32"x32" Cut Area)

    •      
      without display $2,740.00   $2,329.00 Sale Price
      with 8" HD Touch Display* $2,865.00   $2,435.25 Sale Price
      X-50 ‘Stiffy’ 3rd rail +    $197.50
  • Elite Woodworker (32"x32" Cut Area)

    •      
      * with 3rd ‘stiffy’ rail $4,122.50 $3,504.13 Sale Price
      * without ‘stiffy’ $3,925.00 $3,336.25 Sale Price

    (All prices as of Fri 2023-11-23 00:00 UTC)

    (*) Note: I would avoid to choose the 8" Touch display except you are a child or a very small person. If you want to use a Touch display, make sure that it is so big that the buttons on the Jog Pane are at least as big as the tip of your index finger, or you may often unintentionally touch the wrong button on the display. Users reported that here (see also Confirmed Aftermarket Screens/Monitors that work with the Onefinity). You may however not use a touch display at all, but any HDMI (or DVI-D or DVI-I which is compatible to HDMI) computer monitor and a normal USB keyboard and a mouse or trackball instead (e.g. the Kensington Orbit with Scroll Ring (usable for both right/left-handers)), which also has many advantages as the on-screen keyboard lacks some keys.)

So if your budget is limited, you could very well buy the Original X-35 / X-50 Series with buildbotics-derived Onefinity Controller and you will get a CNC machine that will do what you expect it from.

If you bought a Onefinity Original X-35/X-50 Series machine with buildbotics-derived Onefinity controller, you can later buy the Onefinity Elite Upgrade kit which is also an excellent offer.

On the other hand, if you ever thought of buying a Masso G3 Touch directly at the Masso shop,

but then this is a bare one! It lacks…

  1. a power supply,

  2. a relay control box for switching router and vac on and off,

  3. a plug-and-play spindle/VFD control output like Onefinity’s 6-pin GX-12 connector (currently matches only @PwnCNC’s spindle enclosure):

For wiring other VFDs to this connector, see here.

If you get the Masso G3 Touch as part of an Onefinity Elite Series machine, not only you get it to a favorable price, but it has all these accessories included!

However should you want to upgrade to a Masso G3 Touch without the Elite Upgrade kit, but by doing that yourself by just buying the Masso G3 Touch at the Masso shop, then…

Be also sure to be aware of…

I realized I said spindle but I will start off with a Makita router. I understand that will be my weak link but i know this router the speeds and characteristics (though I am sure some of that will change with the 1F being a more ridged machine).

Hey Kevin,

I tried to cover both router and spindle :slight_smile:

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PS: :warning: Note that if you decide to order an Elite with 65 mm router mount, there is no 80 mm spindle mount for Elite offered separately for exchanging the mount later for a spindle (this was possible only on Original Series). Onefinity stated that you will have to buy the entire Z assembly again if you switch to a 80 mm spindle later. So be really sure what you will want to use as your milling motor in the next 3–5 years! Or you will have unnecessary extra costs.

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I would like to thank everyone who gave their input and comments regarding my questions. It was greatly appreciated. I just pulled the trigger and purchased the Elite Woodworker.

Have a great weekend!

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Hey Kevin,

hopefully you ordered it with the 80 mm spindle mount option selected and buy a 80 mm to 65 mm reduction ring for the time when you don’t have your spindle yet but use the Makita hand trim router :slight_smile:

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Success in CNC machining of wood can be boiled down to one word, rigidity. The tip of the cutting tool represents the “sum of all slop”. In other words, any play or flexing from the tool to the workpiece can be represented by the formula:

Total Slop = flex in X + flex in Y + flex in Z + backlash in XYZ + Spindle runout + tool runout + poor mounting of the machine to the floor + seismic activity of the earth + the loaded dump truck that just rolled by your shop + the cranked up Beatle’s misic sung by the Mona Lisa Twins playing in the shop + …

I think you get my point. For its price point, only the OneFinity offers this level of rigidity. From the sturdy round tubular rails with large roller bearings to the use of ball screws and heavy aluminum support columns, the machine is solidly built. Other manufacturers substitute extruded aluminum frames, roller wheels, and even geared rubber bands to move the axis. NO, comparison.

To answer your questions.

  1. Nothing is perfect with the Woodworker it’s the controller, but after two years and a replacement controller still not in working order I’m still using the original controller. It gets the job done. I am also not a fan of carving with a trim router and have a 3 hp air-cooled spindle on my CNC.
  2. Since your X-axis is much longer than mine definitely get the Stiffy.
  3. Yes, I would buy another if needed.
  4. Absolutely
  5. Desktop Pro is my design software of choice as well.

I’m glad to help a fellow “old fart” out, hope to continue to see you in the forum after you take delivery and for years to come.

John
P.S. Check out the Mona Lisa Twins if you listen to classic rock

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Thank eJohn. I ordered the Elite woodworker I will start out with the Makita with plans to upgrade to a spindle down the road.

Yes I am familiar the MonaLisa twins…

I can see me being around for a long time so be careful what you wish for lol